Hali Lee: Um, it's so beautiful to be here, and this is such a beautiful building. Um, I'm a lot of... I'm a mom, I'm an auntie, I'm a neighbor, I'm a sister, I'm a cousin, I'm a best friend, I'm a pal. Um, I love animals. We're all the things. Uh, my family immigrated to this beautiful country, um, when I was a tiny baby. They came here from Korea, and my parents' generation and my grandparents' generation all went, lived through two pretty brutal wars.
And the cultural erasure of their culture by what was then the Japanese Imperial Army. So these scars go deep even though I never personally lived through them, and there's funny things and horrible things, um, that come along with that experience. My grandfather was a freedom fighter. I never knew him, Han Chi Jin, and he was taken away by the, uh, Japanese Imperial Army for his sin of being someone who believed in the liberation and dignity of all, and also for being a scholar of Korean culture and history.
Um, he barely survived imprisonment, and then five short years later, he was taken away by what became the Korean, North Korean Army, and never heard from again, leaving my grandmother alone with six children, um, with my mom being the eldest girl of that six. And I share that because the history of so many of our histories is not really taught in American schools, and just looking around this room, I bet that there are so many histories, um, if you go back a couple different generations, um, that I would love to hear about if we had more time.
One of the things that came over from Korea to this country, and I grew up in Kansas City, my brother and I were always the only Asian kids at our schools. Um, one of the things that came over was, you know, making kimchi with paprika . Making naengmyeon with spaghetti noodles, um, doing what they could to recreate, um, what they were used to eating back home.
But they also brought this idea of a ke, and a ke is like a shared savings circle. So if we were in a ke together, three, six, seven, eight, and we got together every month at Ippudo because the food is good and it's not too expensive. Mm-hmm. Depending on how rich we felt that cycle, the eight of us might decide to put in 100 bucks every day, every month, come to lunch with 100 bucks cash.
Or if we were feeling more rich, we might say, "This cycle, it's gonna be $400." And, um, then we would take turns taking that pot home, and you could use it for whatever you wanted, and I've been part of lots of these with my girlfriends. My mom and dad were often part of a ke in Kansas City. I used my money, my turns to, you know, buy a new laptop.
You know, I would know that in four months time I was gonna have $600 or whatever. I threw a birthday party for my husband. You could use it for whatever you wanted. My buddy, um, always bought herself a piece of jewelry. My other friend always bought herself a really fancy handbag . You could do... You know, these were frivolous girlfriend kes, but really fun, you know.
Um, you could do whatever you wanted with the money, but you had to kind of show and tell the next time. So taking that idea of the ke, um, I started the Asian Women Giving Circle because I realized that my girlfriends around this Ippudo lunch table, each of us was making- charitable philanthropic donations, but none of us, honestly, including me, none of us was being that strategic about it, like focusing on women and girls or immigrants in New York City.
So that was the beginning of the Asian Women Giving Circle, and we turn 20 this year, and we remain an all-volunteer group of sisters. It's like herding cats. I love them, and they drive me crazy at the same time. You guys are about to start a giving circle, so welcome to my world. Yay. Um, but I love them.
It's such an important sisterhood for me in my big city of New York, and we've raised and given away, uh, over $1.5 million at this point, all to women and girls in New York City. Asian families, women and girls, artists, activists in New York City. So I'm gonna flip it to you, Chanda. So I shared a little bit about my culture of giving and generosity.
Mm. Where did you learn generosity from? On whose shoulders do you stand to do this work?
Chanda Smith Baker: Oh, man, too many names to name. Yeah. But what, what I will say and what I have said is that I definitely feel like, uh, a daughter of this state. And, um, there's so many stories that exist outside of North Minneapolis, which many people know that I'm from and where my family has been, but Green Central Neighborhood is named after my uncle, and my- Ah.
And, um, my sister's here. Um, she also works in philanthropy, which is- Hello ... you know, my little twin over there. Um, but you know, our grandmother was born in Northfield, and um, I think that I'm from a community that I wish I could go back and with such clarity say where my great-grandmother was and, and the story.
Um, much of it has been, um, stripped, but what was gained was an understanding of what it means to be part of a collective.
Hali Lee: Mm-hmm.
Chanda Smith Baker: I don't know where I learned it. I don't think I ever didn't know it because of the generosity of how my family operated, um, in the church, right? And grandma would give me my little dollar to put in the plate.
Like, I'd try to put it in my pocket. Like, that is It- it's not for you, it's for others, right? I didn't know where it went, but I knew that part of being part of that community was contributing to it in multiple ways. Yeah. Um, I was part of the youth ministry there, where we went to Mississippi and worked on houses there.
We were teaching reading at a community center. And I had an aunt who worked at Phyllis Wheatley, and I knew she was working on literacy, and I knew she started a program for mothers that were pregnant, um, and still in high school, and what that meant to her in terms of their ability to get on the right foot, and to get on the right foot with people that believed in their value, and saw, um, them beyond their circumstance.
And so I learned through example. It wasn't through definition. It wasn't like you're a philanthropist, you're a giver, you're this. It was, um, modeled and you, you know, I didn't have a choi- like, doing anything other than that would feel odd.
Hali Lee: Yeah. Um, w- a primary body of work for me has been building the Donors of Color network, and I got to lead the qualitative research that became part of its infrastructure, and it was the funnest project ever.
Mm. I've interviewed 150 wealthy people of color across the country, and as you can imagine, the stories are incredible. And the title of the qualitative research is actually called Philanthropy Always Sounds Like Someone Else. Mm. Be- and it's a direct quote from someone we interviewed, because most of us did not learn philanthropy, American Big Phil, we could get into what that means, um, on our grandfather's knee.
Mm-hmm. We learned it from the way our grandmas and grandpas and aunties and uncles, whether they're blood relatives or not, um, or the women down the street, or the church elder, or the basketball coach. We learned it from the people who we grew up around. We might have called it ge in my community, or susu, or isusu, or tanda, or sociedad, um, arisan, mahhibe.
One of the blessings of getting to do this work and getting to write this book is learning about these cultural- Mm-hmm ... forms of generosity that our people have always practiced, ever since we have been a people. It might be embedded within a faith culture, or a culture culture, or a familial culture. And I feel like one of the things that we can do now in this moment, and I really think community foundations have a huge role to play in claiming and taking back the commons and our civic health, um, which has been, in my opinion, sort of usurped by the billionaires.
And it's- I always wanna know a little bit about where you come from, where you come from, where you come from, where I come from. And we need to know that about one another because that has been taken away from the conversation in some ways or erased. And in fact, it's the most important thing to know or share.
Fast-forward, um, I've been doing this other project recently with my buddies and colleagues and friends, and we've been interviewing a lot of wealthy white women around their giving and families. And I remember speaking with w- a woman who... And I'm gonna pick on some of you white ladies a little bit, but I love you.
Um, I interviewed a woman who was, um, like fifth generation, very philanthropic family. Like, very cool, um, community-centered, deeply altruistic, charitable, philanthropic, doing really radical cool stuff. So I'm interviewing her. I asked her a similar kind of question. Like, "Tell me who your people are. Where'd you learn this thing?"
And she s- she literally said, "Holly, I'm a, I'm a cis-gendered, inherited wealth..." She just, like, said these labels, and I said, "Stop. Let's, let's start over again. Tell me who your people are. You know, who's your auntie? Who's your uncle? Who's your grandpa? Who are your... Where'd you..." And there's, there was an incredible story of a northern Midwest-
Lisa Richardson: Mm-hmm
Hali Lee: German origin farmer, agr- agricultural family with one, um, I think a grandpa who kinda... Oh, no, it was the great-grandpa 'cause I think she was gen four, who had kinda got out and made it to Hollywood and made a career in music and started this whole journey that was just incredible. And she wouldn't have gone there if, uh, if I hadn't just, if someone hadn't just asked her- Mm
"Tell me the real story." We gotta dig in a little bit.
Chanda Smith Baker: I think we do need to dig in. There's a lot of places to go with it. But what, um, you reminded me of in the first part of what you just said was what does it mean for us to see ourselves a little bit in philanthropy? My story. So my story and pathway into formal philanthropy actually started at the Women's Foundation, where Beau was on a panel and, um, there were three other women.
It was a Hmong woman- Got her. Um, a Black woman, a Native woman, and maybe a L- a Latino lady, um, really talking about how did you learn about philanthropy? What do you call it? How does it show up in your own community? And actually, I feel like the Native woman might have been young, like a student, and recognized through that story that I had came there for one reason, a, a different reason.
But to find out that, oh, I walked away feeling like, oh, I've been a philanthropist my whole life, and I thought it was for someone else. And, um, I think that what it means to make this work accessible is actually lifting up the stories of everyone and how they've already done it.
Hali Lee: That's how you gotta start, 100%.
It's stories, and people remember stories. They're not gonna remember the percentage of blah, blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. And my experience in building Donors of Color and doing that research, we did a lot of talks in communities around the country just to, like, socialize this idea. "Hey, we're doing this research.
We're looking for people who are giving..." I forget, it was like 50,000 a year or more. I absolutely forgot if it was that or 100, something pretty big, you know? Um, and you would not believe, like, people came out of the woodwork because they wanted to be part of this story, and they came out of the wor- woodwork because for the first time-
this community foundation, this town, was telling them stories that sounded like something they could relate to. Mm-hmm. That sounded like someone in their family. They were stories of philanthropy that looked kinda like them. Um, so the lesson for me is, um, you gotta... The... And I could have, I could be interviewing people today, and this was 2018.
We're coming up on 10 years almost of be- of this work. Um, I could be interviewing people today 'cause they were just lining up. So when I hear on the other side the desire, "We need to diversify our donor roles, you know, we need to find more donors of color. Our, our donor community is so white," I hear that, and it's true, you know?
And there's, and wealth is racialized in America. There's lots of reasons why that is true. But I also know that I'm just, like, a Korean American girl from Kansas City. You know, I don't have, like, a Rolodex full... Do you even know what a Rolodex is? I don't have an address book full of wealthy- A
Chanda Smith Baker: phone. You don't have a phone.
Hali Lee: wealthy people of color in Denver and Atlanta and Seattle and O- Omaha. Like, I don't have that, you know? But it was literally calling people who were part of the links, um, calling, um, business associations, reaching out to companies in town that have employees, asking, following leads. And, um, and we, uh, we could have interviewed a thousand people.
Chanda Smith Baker: Let's talk about Big Phil.
Hali Lee: Ah, Big Phil.
Chanda Smith Baker: Big Phil.
Hali Lee: Yeah.
Chanda Smith Baker: Who is Big
Hali Lee: Phil? Who is Big Phil?
Chanda Smith Baker: Who is Big Phil?
Hali Lee: How many people here work in nonprofits or philanthropy? We have all grown up under Big Phil. So my, in the first, the first third of my book is a critique of big billionaire, rich guy knows best, Louis Quatorze, like sun God, and all of the rest of us orbit around the sun.
Um, that's Big Phil. And our sector of philanthropy was born in the era of the first Gilded Age. Do you guys watch the TV show? So Carnegie, Rockefeller, Ford, all the big names that have eponymous foundations that we still know about, those were all born during the first Gilded Age in American history with the rise of railroads and steel and manufacturing and banking, JP Morgan, right?
We're living in a second Gilded Age now with huge for- we just minted our first trillionaire, um, and the wealth disparity now during this second Gilded Age is even more disparate than the first time around. So what I try to say in my book is we're seeing very, very, very wealthy people take over a lot of aspects of our lives, you know, the consolidation of power in Hollywood, DOGE and the, the federal government.
We ... And I'm not gonna give up, you know? Like, I'm ... We could give up. That is, people are doing that. But-
Chanda Smith Baker: It's a choice. That's a
Hali Lee: choice ... it's a choice. Um, about five years ago, Anand Giridharadas wrote a book and Rob Reich wrote another book that critiqued this kind of billionaire-led philanthropy. Winners Take All, Anand's book is Winners Take All, and Rob Reich's is Just Giving.
They're ... Read them. They're really good, and they're ... I'll summarize crudely what they both say in different ways. Um, they, the argument they make is that very, very wealthy people have different incentives than the rest of us. V- very, very wealthy people have very little incentive to change the systems that made them so wealthy to begin with.
Super sensible argument, I agree. To that argument, I add in my book that to rely on very, very wealthy people in any of these sectors that we're talking about inspires a sort of passivity in the rest of us, and our system does not work when we are passive. Our system works best and maybe only when we the people, we the people who live here, live in neighborhoods, parts of community foundations and women's foundations, when we the people care enough to get educated, link arms, and do something together.
So the second two-thirds of my book, so the first third is a critique of Big Phil- And there's a lot of stories in there, including one who a- literally told me to get out of the room 'cause I didn't belong there. And he was kinda right. I didn't belong there, but, you know, I'm gonna stay because I do have something to say.
Mm-hmm. The second two-thirds of this, of my book are stories of regular non-billionaire people who are doing amazing work in their communities by doing it together. So they are book groups that get political, um, women's circles that flip state legislatures. Um, my mother-in-law, she had... There's a great story about her that got cut, but I'll share it with you guys.
It's one of my favorites. Mm-hmm. Um, mutual aid groups that just came together, especially during COVID, to help one another, um, in communities. And like I s- like we said at the beginning, this is what we've been doing always. We've just been kind of usurped by the sort of glamour of Big Phil. So it, it's really thank you for your service, Big Phil.
Thank you for the public libraries. Thank you for the colleges you've endowed. Thank you for everything that you've done. It's also true that you have not paid your fair share of taxes. And it's also true that some of you are controlling your foundations from the literal grave. Um, so make some space for the rest of us, um, to do this good together.
Because doing it together is a more democratic form.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. So we're talking about civic participation, but you also brought up who we have in the White House. So this is not about party. Can you say something about, about how you have worked across party or what your what your experience is with that?
Hali Lee: I will try, Chanda.
Chanda Smith Baker: Great. I love that.
Hali Lee: I've never really worked across party, but- Oh ... um, like work work for a paid job. Yeah. But I grew up in Kansas City, you know, and my neighbors were Republicans, but these are the old-fashioned Republicans, not the current version. My dad voted Republican, I think, most of the time, but not for Trump 'cause that was really a step too far.
These are, like, people who wear all red when it's game day for the Kansas City Chiefs and all blue when it's game day for the Kansas City Royals. Um, I grew up in a suburb of Kansas City, Missouri, and these, the, these are my earliest memories. I remember, um, Archie Bunker on TV and, you know, these were the...
And Sesame Street and Electric Company- Mm-hmm ... and Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, right? Um, when we were building the Donors of Color network, we made a decision that was not universally applauded that we wanted to open the door a little wide, you know, that could it, so that we could include people in the network who, who cared about racial equity and racial justice, even if they sometimes voted for a centrist Republican or a centrist Democrat or a neoliberal pr- Like we, we didn't ask people who you voted for if you wanted to be part of this network.
So in looking back, I'm pretty sure that we had some members of our community who they would vote very differently than I would. But we can agree about so many things that we're gonna work on and towards, um, even if we might vote a little bit differently in the ballot box. And I think that that's an, a muscle that we have to exercise.
And, uh, the community foundation, to put more on your big plate, Chanda, these are perfect places to do it. You know, one of the things that I talk about in... Do you guys know the work of Robert Putnam? He wrote Bowling Alone among... That was the first book of his that I wrote. But he's been writing about, um, disenfranchisement, you know, the decline in civic participation in American culture for 50 years, you know.
Um, and so these organizations were not perfect, the Elks clubs and the Rotary clubs and PTAs and going to church, you know. Um, a lot of these places have lost members because they lost faith in us, in some cases, if we were gay or transgressive in some other way. So that is all true. Um, it's also true that our p- participation in civic structure has declined.
What's gonna replace it, you know? Mm-hmm. Do you know who's interested in replacing it? Lululemon and- ... Sweetgreen Salad. These are corporations that are ver- I know, look at your face. These are corporations... I wish you could all see my friend's face right here.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah, that's my sister. It's my sister's face. I know what that meant too.
Hali Lee: Yeah. So these are places that are trying to create- Community ... community places where we can come together and talk about what's important to us, and what's keeping me up at night, and what I might do with my neighbor to address the rats that are taking over Brooklyn post-COVID, or the trees that are occasionally falling down.
These are things that neighbors get together and talk about that don't have anything to do with- ... who's running for president, right? We can all agree that the rats are taking over, and it's, we gotta do something about it. That's the level I'm talking about. There's literally a rat czar, her name is Ray, on my block.
And thank God for Ray. Um, I just lost my train of thought as well. Well, here, look.
Chanda Smith Baker: Let me, let me help you. Um, so what, what I... So can we take the story back a little bit? Because, um, I know from the book it was you and your brother in the school in Kansas City, right? Mm-hmm. Um, we talked a little bit about the importance of representation.
So how did you go from it being you and the brother to establishing this giving circle? What were you trying to solve, and what have you learned?
Hali Lee: Oh, that's a great question, Chanda. And I think I only can answer this in hindsight. So growing up in Kansas City, like I said, my brother and I were always the only Asian kids in our schools until Kim Wong came in fifth grade, and her family had sort of the fancy Chinese restaurant in town, and we are friends to this day.
Chanda Smith Baker: I love it.
Hali Lee: Yeah. She's pretty cool.
Chanda Smith Baker: I love that, and I hate that.
Hali Lee: I
Chanda Smith Baker: know.
Hali Lee: But you
Chanda Smith Baker: know. Because how many of us have been onlys in rooms? Right. And so- Yeah ... um, you also talk about belonging, which we can get to, but- We
Hali Lee: can get
Chanda Smith Baker: to
Hali Lee: that, yeah ...
Chanda Smith Baker: keep going, keep
Hali Lee: going. Yep. So I didn't have any Asian friends. And then I went to college on the East Coast, and I tried to make Asian friends, but they were not like me.
They were, they were, uh, they were either real immigrants, like they had just immigrated to America to go to college, and that was not me. And another group of Asian people at Princeton at that time were pretty evangelical, and that's not really my people either. So I left college without really Asian girlfriends.
So I think in hindsight, I, I created the Asian Women Giving Circle to have Asian girlfriends for the first time in my life. And it, it can make me cry if I think about it too much, 'cause I had to wait till I was nearly 40-
Chanda Smith Baker: Oh, that's rough ...
Hali Lee: to have, like, a group of girlfriends where we could just, like, get each other or get so many things about one another growing up as girls in America who look Asian, who are Asian, and have cultures that are across Asian diaspora.
Um, so I think- You know, these things go deep. You know, identity, belonging, seeing ourselves in stories, getting to write stories that we can see and feel ourselves in. So I'm gonna ask you kind of the same question. So you guys, you're thinking about starting a giving circle here. I understand that you are going to be in it.
Chanda Smith Baker: I am.
Hali Lee: You are gonna be in this giving circle. I am. You're not gonna be the boss. You're gonna be one of- I'm
Chanda Smith Baker: not the boss. I'm in ...
Hali Lee: you're in the one. I'm in the,
Chanda Smith Baker: I'm
Hali Lee: in
Chanda Smith Baker: the we.
Hali Lee: Yeah, you're in the we. Yeah. So tell me, where do you think that's coming from for you?
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. Um- So I love it when the interview gets reversed.
Um, so that part. Um, what I would say is that what has always been important to me is being in spaces that feel reflective and inclusive, um, inviting, um, spaces that are curious. And part of how I'm thinking about navigating the space is in the midst of busyness, how do I stay connected and curious and in relationship?
How do I build community while I'm leading this big job, right? And it makes the most sense to me because my value of what does it mean to democratize philanthropy, what does it mean for it to feel accessible, and for particularly women to understand the tools that are available and the power that's available, particularly when we work together.
Jennifer \: Mm-hmm.
Chanda Smith Baker: And so, um, I think I have to, I think I lead through a lens of modeling what I mean. And I mean that we should all be in this tent. We should all be part of, of, of participating in whatever that looks like. And it doesn't require us to bring multiple millions to the table. And maybe you have multiple millions and it's somewhere else, and you just wanna be part of a community.
But whatever it is, I feel like I'm seeking a space where we can be curious and explore together and learn together about philanthropy and how we can make it more accessible, and then how can we make this community work for everyone that lives here. So it feels very dual purpose, but it also feels extremely personal.
Hali Lee: I just applaud you, Chanda, because, you know, like I said, my book came out in March last year, so I've done over 80, ul- almost 90 book talks in that year and three months. It's been a blast, and these book talks have been, you know, eight women in a living room in rural Washington, and then at the other end, I kid you not, 2,500 Asian American professionals, mostly accountants-
at a really ugly ballroom in Orlando in August. That was crazy. Like, there were signs that said, "Beware of alligators."
Chanda Smith Baker: Okay.
Hali Lee: And in all these talks, I have not met a leader who wants to be in the thing, learning about it and doing it and building community, not only for, like, the good of this organization and this community, but also for you.
Like, just to have the self-awareness and the courage and, um- I don't know, the curiosity to do that yourself. Mm. I really applaud you. Thank you. I haven't read that yet. That's really inspiring, and I think you'll learn a ton. I hope I- 'Cause usually what I hear is- I hope
Chanda Smith Baker: I learn a ton from you all.
Hali Lee: Yeah, you're gonna learn a ton, and you're gonna learn about her too- Yeah
which is gonna be really fun. 'Cause usually what I hear is, like, how can we use giving circles to diversify our donor base, you know? How can we use, like, y- sort of instrumentalizing, um, giving circles, which is not bad, you know? Like, it's a strategy, and it's a way to diversify.
Chanda Smith Baker: It... Okay, can I push?
Hali Lee: Yeah, go ahead.
Chanda Smith Baker: I don't know if it's bad or good, but what it does feel like is that the only way to do it What it, what it doesn't... You, you have the Donor of Color network. You understand the class diversity that exists within all communities, and it's not relegated one way. And I think part of why this is important, too, is there's a narrative about who the philanthropists are in communities.
Mm. But there's also a narrative about who the receivers are.
Hali Lee: Uh-huh. Yeah. 100%. Yep.
Chanda Smith Baker: And I think it's important that we disrupt that. And so I think that even in some of the ways that I hear them, it's that we're creating something for them- Yeah ... so, like, in a charitable way versus a community way. Charity.
Hali Lee: Yeah.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah.
Hali Lee: And there's also this assumption that I've seen, oh, well, it's a Black women's circle. They're gonna give less than the Asian women's circle or whatever. Like, there's all these assumptions. Have
Chanda Smith Baker: you all heard that? Mm-hmm.
Hali Lee: Yeah. That's a pretty common one. Um, and we have to disrupt all of those assumptions at every point of the way.
So I'm... Let me know how I can help.
Chanda Smith Baker: I absolutely will. And one of the ways that I think would be important for me to understand, and perhaps in the room, is, so giving circle, it's collective giving. Just give us the mechanics, and then let's talk a little bit more about what is the value besides giving money-
Hali Lee: Yeah
Chanda Smith Baker: that a circle can bring.
Hali Lee: Well, uh, they're, they're all different. You know, I can tell you about mine specifically, but my friend Isis, who's part of Philanthropy Together, she says, "When you've met one giving circle, you've met one giving circle," 'cause everyone does it differently. We have two giving circle experts over here, so we probably do things super differently, um, Noshene and Bo.
Um-
You, but at its most basic, it's groups of people who are pooling their time, talent, treasure, testimony, and ties, or just one of those things, in order to do something good in their community. Giving circles tend to be pretty local. We tend to live where we give. We tend to not be billionaires. It's harder to get, in my experience, and I'm working with some very wealthy people now, it's harder for them to be really collaborative because it, it means giving up a little control.
Um, my giving circle, we decided to set the give/get. Do you guys know what give or get? Like, each of us is doing our best to give and get $2,500 a year to put into the common pot. We decided to set our give/get bar a little bit high because we knew that many of the nonprofits that were gonna get funding from the giving circle in mine in New York City were gonna be small nonprofits who were gonna need board members who aren't afraid to raise money.
So I thought, "Why don't we practice this-"
Hali Lee: actually not rocket science, but still sort of scary skill of raising money? Why don't we practice it, like, s- sister to sister? 'Cause then we can see that it's really not that hard to ask our friends to give 10 bucks a, a month or whatever to the, to this cause that's not, um, that's for the greater good.
How many of us in this room, how many of you in this room were told in overt or, or covert ways that it's impolite to talk about sex, money, and politics? Almost everyone, right? And I think it's kinda gender. You know, I find that it's often women, girls who are told that. And when you think about it, sex, money, and politics are kind of the most important things to talk about right now.
And how are we gonna ch- change anything as regards to sex, money, and politics if we cannot even talk about it? So I devote a chapter to my book about money, um, talking about money. One of my buddies in Brooklyn started a, a giving circle called the Rad Fund, and they are a group of 40-year-olds, now they're probably 45, who literally came together because they love to go dancing with each other, and they believe in the lib- in liberation.
And Seji's kind of a quant in political data and philanthropy data work. So Seji developed something called Formula One, and it's a spreadsheet, and everyone in the g- in the Rad Fund is supposed to fill out Formula One, which figures a percentage of your income and a percentage of your wealth that you're supposed to...
That's your goal for what you're gonna contribute to the Rad Fund that year. And he told me with full candor that they were so excited about this thing, radical transparency among the 15 or 20 members of this friend group that were gonna do giving together. This is who we are. This is what we believe.
They sent around Formula One. Everyone got it at home alone, and then they filled it out and cried by themselves and sat in their feelings, and they kinda screwed it up. And Seji tells me that what they've learned is Formula One is their values, and they believe in it, but they have to talk about it. You know, you can't just fill it out.
So what, basically what happened when they were sitting at home filling it out, they learned that one of their members had a $5 million trust fund that no one else knew about. They learned that another member had a teaching job that paid $50,000 a year, and then another member worked in corporate and was earning $500,000 a year.
So each of them felt just kind of shitty about what they were reading on this spreadsheet that's being filled out in real time. So what they've learned now, five or maybe even 10 years later, I forget how old they are, is that they have to do it in person, and they have to talk about it. So if Chanda, or me, my last kid just graduated from college, so I have more money than I'm used to 'cause I'm not paying-
college tuition. But maybe Chanda has just bought a home, so she's asset rich but cash poor. So they talk about it, or maybe someone got laid off, or someone got a big raise. You know, they can talk about the things that are happening that add the nuance to Formula One. So he said, "We're hard on the formula, but we're soft on the implementation."
Chanda Smith Baker: Why, why is it important to... I've been in more spaces where having people talk about their relationship with money- becomes really important. And you know, in a community foundation, you're working with generations. And so it plays out in, in different ways. But why is it important for people to just pause and understand what their relationship with money?
And how does that fit into
Hali Lee: That's a good question. You know, I think just like any tool, you have to kind of read the manual. You know? Like, money is a tool, and money doesn't... And but in so many ways, money rules us. Mm. You know, I've seen this with, like, third generation... Um, in fact, there's a woman I know who's just turned 40, and she's gen three of a family foundation, and she's just decided this last year to take the reins.
And she goes to the family's, um, wealth advisor, multiple bankers, you know, Schwab account holders, and they continue to look at her husband and look at her brother and not look at her- Mm ... when, in fact, she's the one who is gonna be the matriarch of this billion-dollar family foundation and growing, huge company.
She's the one that's gonna be the leader of this enormous apparatus. But the systems of banking and management, wealth management and accounting and legal, all of the systems that support wealth and wealthy people in America, they were built by Big Phil. So they continue to think of Big Phil's sons and nephews as the heirs to all of that apparatus rather than the daughters and the sisters and nieces.
And that's a structural problem that we have to fix. And I think- And how
Chanda Smith Baker: does that play out with the wealth transfer, in your mind?
Hali Lee: Well, it's not. I mean, the w- what's happening is that this wealth transfer is happening. It's already underway. And you know, everyone has a different number, but it's trillions of dollars.
And American, in America, women are gonna own and control m- 50% or more of this country's wealth in our lifetimes, you know, by 2040. This has never happened before. But yet, the bankers, the accountants, the lawyers continue to look at the men. So I was just talking to a group of wealthy women, and they said, "You know what it takes?
It's gonna take five of us to just call our brokers at Schwab and say, 'I'm gonna take my money out.'" Mm. "And I'm gonna put it at Nia Capital," which is run by a woman, and it's- What
Chanda Smith Baker: she meant was they're gonna put it at the St. Paul in Minnesota. No, I'm just kidding. Keep going.
Hali Lee: We haven't met yet at that pace.
Chanda Smith Baker: I
Hali Lee: know, I'm just kidding.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah,
Hali Lee: yeah. Go on. But you know, there are a handful of places that are run by women, that are gender- Yeah ... less investing. I mean, for the investing side. On the philanthropy side- Right ... there's a lot, a lot of cool places to go. But it's, they're, they're, they gotta listen to their, they're gonna listen to their customers- Mm
in these situ- in these organ- these, I guess, institutions.
Chanda Smith Baker: So it's really the, the power of we, right? So let's talk about The Big We. Why, why the, why this name? What does that mean?
Hali Lee: Well, my kids, when I, when we were playing around with names, they did a rude gesture 'cause they, they were like, "Oh, is it time to wee?"
Like pee. So they did rude things, but I think it's a great title.
Chanda Smith Baker: I like the title. And you have a line, I think, in the opening that says, uh Like me to we to the big we Big
Hali Lee: we, yeah
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. So what- We're- What's the big we?
Hali Lee: So that actually comes from, um, we haven't even talked about this yet, but one of the projects at Radiant my team is building is Freedom School for Philanthropy, and it's a philanthropy curriculum for wealthy people who want to literally change the subject in philanthropy away from Big Phil and more towards the communities and the why that we care about.
So the Freedom School for Philanthropy follows a me to we to big we arc. So in the me chapter, each chapter is a virtue, and in the me third, it's m- my what powers do I have and how can I use them for good? What are my most cherished values? Like, three of them, not 100 of them. Um, and what are... I just spaced the...
What does freedom mean to me? Like, taking Fannie Lou Hamer as a beginning, but what does that really mean to me and my communities? Most philanthropy curricula stop, start and stop with the me. They start and stop with the donor What's the donor's legacy? What's the donor's mission, vision, wish for the world?
What's the change that the donor wants to see? So that's where we start. But then we push through to the middle, which is we. What are the communities that I'm part of? What does courage look like in this practice of philanthropy? How do I look at the courage of a frontline worker, um, at a Planned Parenthood in one of the southern states that still has them, and my courage that I need to summon to talk to a matriarch in my family who doesn't wanna have the conver- Like color, courage has different flavors depending on the setting.
Accountability, um, what does that look like in our, in our work? And then the last third I call the big we, um, which is the systems that we all navigate. Taxation, race, gender, um, the history of the United States where we're working, where we're doing this work. These are the big... It's like the air and the water that we swim in and breathe, all of us.
Um, and then the final chapter in Freedom's Call for Philanthropy is organizing, and it's com- we end in community. And we, that's where we talk about organizing, and that's because one of the things that I've learned in this work is that very wealth- Like maybe most of us, I've seen it so many times.
Wealthy people will listen to their peers more than they'll listen to their own paid staff. Yeah. Over and over and over again. So if we want to change behaviors and change culture and change where dollars are going and time is going, we have to build a community of wealthy people who want and are interested in organizing and influencing their peers.
Because that peer-to-peer is where it's at. So for those of you who work in organizations that are fundraising, here's my favorite hack. Get a board member or you, or get someone to underwrite your membership in a donor network because then you're a member to member, and the, the conversations you have, any asks that you might be making or any knowledge that you're sharing becomes peer to peer rather than a grant seeker and a grant giver, and it's a totally different-
Chanda Smith Baker: Mm
Hali Lee: ballgame.
Chanda Smith Baker: Well, that is solid advice. Um, okay, I'm gonna ask one more question, I think, and then I'm gonna open it up, um, to you all. So, uh, get your questions ready if you have them. Um, so we just saw a moment of organizing that, um, happened here over the beginning of this year, where there was mutual aid.
You know, we're in this neighboring phase where, um, people were actually pretty courageous in a way that, um, shocked me in some ways. It was completely Minnesotan, and there was another piece of me where, um, two people lost their lives- Yeah ... over nothing. And the next day people were out with their whistles.
Like, that is a level of courage that I have not seen demonstrated, um, in the way that it hit me in, in current day. And during this time period at the foundation, you know, I had lots of talks with the team about how public and how visible we were gonna be in the work, and it didn't feel like our time to be visible.
It felt like our time to support what was happening on the ground. Yep. And in many ways, those were big giving circles. Like, those were giving communities that was collective giving that made a decision that what was happening was not right, right? That they had something to contribute, a ride, a, you know, some food, support, whatever it was.
A room, um, right? There was organizing around making sure our businesses stay open. There's all these things. And I'm, I'm really curious on, you know, it's easy to see it in moments where it's dark and hard and more people are in it, and the issue is, like, right in your face. The question is, is what will it take?
Because all of the issues we saw already existed. Mm-hmm. It was just intense. It just materialized in different ways. And so part of what you're saying is that we all have to lean into the things that we care about, and creating a community and, and attacking the systems matters if we wanna have sustained change, if we wanna activate our civic rights and change our communities.
But what do you think the energy is, or what will be required for us to, to sort of lean in, not with that intensity and not with that fear, but with, with power and, um, with our future in mind?
Hali Lee: That's a really big question. I
Chanda Smith Baker: know.
Hali Lee: And I could... We could get at this in so many different ways. Um, gosh, um, I'm gonna just say that relationships are infrastructure.
Relationships are infrastructure, period. And- The same things, like right now, my block association, the Rats and Trees, we're planning a block party and, like a garden party to just come meet your neighbors. It's all the people we see at the bodega and all the, you know, thing, but we don't know each other.
And some people are like, "Well, why are we doing that?" You know, "Why is that important?" They're not saying it in that way, but they're, you can tell that that's almost what they're saying. And I don't have to get into an argument each time, but really when... Those are the same muscles. That's what needs to exist so that we know one another when something bad happens, when there's a, when Sandy ha- Hurricane Sandy happens again, or if ISIS threatening to come to New York, for sure.
They've been in different areas. They might show up in our neighborhood. If we don't have that infrastructure in place of knowing that this person's retired, this person's taking care of an elderly parent, this person is, um, working four jobs and is barely making it, this one is dealing with an illness that we can't see, this one's an EMT, this one is a really good baker.
You know, like, all the random stuff that you know when you get to know your neighbors, it's the same things you need to know when you're planning a block party and also when you're forming signal chats so that we can come out and get groceries for people who are afraid to leave their home or escort kids to school 'cause the parents don't wanna be outside.
It's the same lists. It's the same skill sets. It's the same people. Um, I'm actually pitching a second book that's a follow-on to this one, and it's, we're fighting over the title, but the subtitle is something like Five Things You Can Do Right Now to Be a Better Citizen Today And each of the five things is actually really simple.
The hard part is that tens of millions of us have to give a shit and do the five things. That's the hard part. Each of the five things is, is literally easy. Thing one is invite five neighbors over for dinner. Kitchen tables are a metaphor that run through my book, because kitchen tables have been the locus of a lot of powerful organizing in this country always, especially by and for women, people of color, immigrants, and queer folks.
So, but just don't stop at your kitchen table. It's important to add a leaf or two to bring in people who are a little bit outside of your circle of regulars. So that's my tweak. So thing one in the five things that any of us can do to be better citizens today, thing one is literally invite five neighbors over for dinner.
Thing two, I actually just forgot what thing two is.
Chanda Smith Baker: Go to three and then come back. The
Hali Lee: three is I think practice courage. Like, what does it look like to be a little bit brave in your... Oh, no, thing two is join something. Literally anything. A community foundation. If it's stray cats, join the stray cat rescue thing.
Because whatever the thing is, you will learn so much about why are cats continuing to be feral- Stray ... and stray and unhealthy and having baby. Like, you'll learn so much. Thing three is practice courage. Thing four is, I forgot. Thing five is something about, like, put yourself in front of awe. You know, put yourself in, um, in nature or art.
You know, I, for me it's art. Or being a fan. The Knicks, Knicks in five in New York City- ... and the World Cup, like, it was magical, the vibe shift in New York- Yeah ... 'cause of Mobani and Knicks in five- Yes ... and the World Cup. It's been the best summer. What is that thing? And it's not that I'm leading the thing, I'm joining one of the thousands of people who are in the thing.
I'm one of many. Um, I have awe in that kind of situation. So anyways.
Chanda Smith Baker: And it gets to the point that you make in the book around belonging. Yeah. And, like, there's, there's more isolation, and there's so many of us that wanna do good, and why not do it together? It's
Hali Lee: the only way.
Chanda Smith Baker: Um, because it builds. En- en- energy builds.
But it also, to me, it's the ability to disrupt. So it's not just about who's in the circle, it's about who's watching the circle. Mm-hmm. Right? And, um, opening up what's possible.
Hali Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
Chanda Smith Baker: Any questions out there?
Jennifer: It only takes one to get us started, right?
Hali Lee: Sarah Lubin's hosting a thing called No One Can Save the World Alone in two weeks, which kinda gets to the point.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Richardson: Sure. My name's Lisa, um, Richardson. I have a donor-advised fund at the foundation- Yes ... which is why I was invited. And, um, so one thing that's resonating for me is the, the idea of the peers and that I feel sort of isolated as a newer donor Um, that my peer group is not there yet.
Lisa Richardson: You know, but economically many of my friends aren't there.
Right. But also sort of socially or sort of norms wise. So if I step up and assign an auction and contribute, they sort of turn and look at me, and there's a bit of like pushback to move back into the space. Hmm. Move back into the shadows. That rather than, um, moving into a new role for me to be, um, making a difference a- and realizing that I'm in the last chapter of my life, or I'm beginning the last chapter, it's time.
Like, uh, what are we, what are we waiting for? It's time to make a difference. So that's one piece. The other thing is we talk about Big Phil so much, but, um, you didn't mention it, and I'm sure it's covered in your book, that this incredibly upside-down calculation, fiscal calculus that undergirds Big Phil- Mm-hmm
about the endowment model-
Hali Lee: Yeah ...
Lisa Richardson: and the scarcity, uh, framework of that and the wealth hoarding. You know, all these wealth management firms are not managing wealth, they're hoarding wealth. And they're teaching all their clients and fostering the mentality of wealth hoarding that's been going on for a long time and is part of this wealth transfer now.
So it's all about s- um, hoarding for your family, for your tribe, your little sub-tribe- Yeah ... hoarding for your tribe. And completely ignoring the liberation that comes both to the individual and to the community through, um, a liberatory framework of passing wealth, sharing wealth, using wealth, money is medicine, all of that.
So those aren't questions, but they're still- Well- Thank you ...
Chanda Smith Baker: I appreciate. Yeah. I'm gonna jump in first- Yeah, go ... to say that, um, this is why I think it's important for us to have these conversations and be in community together because I think it's really easy to make assumptions on both sides, right?
Folks that have funds or have wealth or folks that don't have it in the same way. And I think being at a table with the level of diversity that allows us to expand our point of view, if our point of views are expanded it means that we have a more expansive way to serve this community. And so I really appreciate the points that you've made, and then I'll let you jump in on the-
Hali Lee: Yeah.
Thank you. And, and you're, that's very brave, you know, what you said at the beginning. To do something that's just outside of the norm for your friend group, you know? But I think what will be enticing to your friends is to see you having a really good time. You know, and just enjoying what you're doing and making new friends and doing new things and having new experiences.
Chanda Smith Baker: I, um, in Anand's book, um, Winners Take All, it's not just about the money, it's about the control of the conversation. Right? That whoever has the most wealth or the most power, um, at the table often sets the agenda, and everyone else falls in line. And I think part of what we're talking about is it's really our agenda.
And in order for it to be our agenda, we have to lin- lean in like, like we have the right to own an agenda.
Hali Lee: 100%.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah.
Hali Lee: We have to speak it. Yeah. And we have to feel the power of it.
Chanda Smith Baker: So is this a money strategy, or is it a power strategy? Is it a civic stra- It's all of it. It's all of
Hali Lee: it? It's all of it, 'cause we gotta vote, we gotta care, we gotta know, get educated.
We have to step into our money power. Women on the investing side, there is so much growth potential for us to step into our power as investors. Where we bank, you know, where our money is invested, who's... The wealth, what you just talked about, like wealth advisors, they're, um, they care about assets under management.
So within Fidelity or Schwab or Vanguard or within a family office or within another bank, the wealth advisor is often at counter, they're at loggerheads with the philanthropy advisor because the philanthropy side wants the money out the door, but the wealth side wants to keep money inside because they care about the A- AUM, assets under management.
So who, who's got the power actually there? The donor does. So if more women who are coming into more wealth can learn about the investing side and make her opinion known, make our opinion known about where we want that money invested, how we want it invested, how we want, where we want it to go, we are the customer for those banks, and they listen to their customers more than they're gonna care about doing the right thing.
So I think there's a ton of work there. There's a really ton of growth potential also on the electing women to office side. Mm-hmm. We were talking about this. Women running for office are doxxed, threatened, threatened with violence. It's terrible what women running for office face. Women running for office, um, rely much more heavily on women political donors than their, than male candidates do.
A larger percentage of their candidates' budgets are- Yeah ... are provided by women. And at, at the same time, women political donors represent a tiny fraction of political donations overall. So there's a huge opportunity there for women donors, whether you're giving 100 bucks or the maximum, um, to step into our power in that arena.
And as we know, tax policy, social policy, clean water, public education, these are dollar figures that dwarf philanthropic capital. You know, philanthropy is this big, government is this big, and investment capital is this big.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. One more question. Go ahead. Yep. Hi.
Jenna Ray: Um, my name is Jenna Ray. Thank you so much for-
Chanda Smith Baker: Hey, Jenna
this
Jenna Ray: conversation. Mm-hmm. For those who don't know me... Beautiful, thank you. Thank
Hali Lee: you.
Jenna Ray: Um, for those who don't know me, I lead the team at GiveMN, where we help grassroots donors connect with their favorite causes. I like to think of myself as an everyday philanthropist, and I'm really curious about this conversation between, um, or how we navigate the space between power and money, and how we move through that space.
And I would love to hear a little bit more about how the two of you think about the connection between those two things in our roles as givers and our role as neighbors and civic participants. Is it, in your mind, a linear pathway or a linear journey that we take? Is it circular? Is it a, a nexus of PowerPoints, a honeycomb, a connect, a constellation of stars, or is it different for every one of us?
What are, how are you thinking about that?
Hali Lee: Well, I, I think it's like Venn diagrams. I mean, one of my sort of jokes in the work I do is that donors, whether they're large, b- you know, big donors or little donors, we're polyamorous. You know? Like, if a woman is part of a network or a group, I would bet money that she's part of three or four, or maybe even five.
So it's a mis- it's a misnomer to think, "Chanda's my donor, back off," or, "She's my member, back off," 'cause probably she... I mean, you just told me back there, you're, like, on five boards. You run this huge place. You're starting a giving circle. I mean, it's like 10 communities. And same with me. Maybe not that many, but- Yeah,
Chanda Smith Baker: yeah
five. Okay, 80, 80 tops.
Hali Lee: Um, so, y- you know, we're parts of lots of different networks, so I think it's more like Venn diagrams that overlap. That's how I imagine it. How about you?
Chanda Smith Baker: I think power and money come together in such a way that people don't see their power And, um, if I think if I understand your question, and if I go back to what Holly said earlier around, um, relationship with money, if you see your value related to what you have compared to someone else, like, I think some of it has to be personal work and understanding what that contribution is and what it is that you're work...
Like, you kind of have to, like, if you're gonna be at the table that you weren't invited to, you gotta own it.
Hali Lee: Yeah.
Chanda Smith Baker: Right? You can't go there and shrink, right? You kind of gotta own it, and I think this is a invitation to how do we individually move through the, the me, the we, to the big we, right? Using safety of each other in a giving circle to say we actually have more power and more ability to influence.
What does that look like? And being at the table to have the conversation and to pool some resources and do good while we're doing it feels like a thing. But I feel like it is narrative shifting. Mm-hmm. I feel like it is a level of disruption both at the individual and the system level disruption is how I feel about it.
Hali Lee: And it's uncomfortable for a lot of women, me included, to talk about money and power. You know, I've been told from a, uh, from a young age, even though my parents, and, you know, my parents are feminists, my grandma was a feminist, like, I was told lots of strong messages, but I also heard a lot of Korean Confucian messages that kept me kind of small.
I was born the year of the fire horse. I turn 60 at the end of this year, which I can't believe, and back in the day, girls born my year would have been down the well because it's, this is a year that, um, magnifies traits that are stereotypically male, like being ambitious and being in the world, whatever.
So I would have not made it in, you know, another generation of Korean girlhood. Um, we are told in so many ways not to be powerful and not to think about money as a way to be powerful, but we have to in order to make the change that we're talking about. I think this me to we to big we frame is useful.
Like, play around with that, with the question that you asked, and then I'm happy to talk to you about it more. Nancy Lyon
Jennifer \: Um, I'm curious, uh- Hold on, Nancy. Hold on. I know you have a big voice, but let's make sure everybody- I said big voice. It's a beautiful voice.
Nancy Lyons: Hi. Oh, I thought you said big butt. What a liberty. Um, um, hi, I'm Nancy. I'm on the board of the Saint Paul & Minnesota Foundation. Ah. And I, I actually tried to be succinct, so I wrote this down. But, um, when you talk about billionaires hoarding wealth, something that's been on my mind during this conversation is I think that scarcity instinct lives in women, and, um, and because we really only talked about earned wealth and women for the last 40 or 50 years, maybe.
Nancy Lyons: Um, so I- I- I think... I- I'm curious about how you help someone go from, "I don't have enough," to feeling as if they do have enough
Hali Lee: That's a big question. Yeah. Whoo. Um, well, I think that's like, there's therapy. Yes.
Nancy Lyons: Yes.
Hali Lee: There's lots of advisors who literally help you go through worksheets, like how much is enough.
And we're talking like, how much is enough for th- three generations of college, and keeping that second home, and doing all the bountiful things that people want to do, which is great. Like, I'm not at all judging of that, you know? Um, so I think there's big answers to that that aren't me. You know, I have my own way that we do it with Freedom School for Philanthropy, but I think to really get into it for each person- Mm-hmm
and their family context is something that they need to talk with a therapist about. It really is. And also various advisors. Financial planner. No.
Chanda Smith Baker: No. But I- I, I don't know if I have anything to add, but I'm gonna add, okay? Which is, um, I think, I think this is the value of having the conversation out loud.
Because if you're having it in your head, and you're feeling like you don't belong, or you don't have enough, or whatever the narrative is that you're living and leading through, it's hard to disrupt it. I think that when, like any community that we're part of, the multiple communities you talked about, like, I walk into the communities I'm in and I leave and I'm like, "Oh, I can go out and do anything," because they just deposited so much in me that reflects back to me different than what I might have been thinking about the thing.
And, um, y- you know, sort of the invitation is how do we disrupt or how do we build power together? Because I think that it's sometimes easier to do it in a community than to step out on your own and feel like, I, you know, what can I do on my own? Well, you can do a lot. But you can do more together, and I think the beauty of getting to know each other and ask some of these deeper questions is that now you become a community that's not just giving together, but you're actually supporting each other together.
And I think that's part of the craving that I'm feeling from so many people right now.
Hali Lee: I think you're totally right. Like, we have, we get told to do so many things all alone, you know, myself or my family. Individualistic, right? But if you learn something from y- your shrink or advisor that is shareable to your sisters, you know, in, in the foundation or book group or whatever, that's like really useful and helpful to all of us.
And then it starts to break down the taboos of, oh, we do, we can't talk, you know, the privacy and keeping it quiet. That taboo doesn't really serve us, you know? It can, it usually ends up serving, you know, the version of Big Phil that- Mm-hmm ... has probably set it up
Chanda Smith Baker: that way. That's because it's in the narrative.
It's in the water, so it's hard to not think about it through that lens. Miguel, did I see your hand go up?
Miquel McMoore: Um, you did. Um-
Chanda Smith Baker: Did you mean it?
Miquel McMoore: Well, yeah. I kinda, I did. But with... Oh.
So anyway, I keep walking to the next camera. I'm sorry, Nick. Here we go. And then I know we have one quick one over here. Yep. And then we're gonna have the wrap-up.
Yeah, yeah. So I guess my question is, and I'm an individual. I'm not... I'm philanthropy adjacent. Um, I don't work in philanthropy, but I like to think of myself as generous in any, in many ways, as, as I can. But I would love to be part of a giving circle. Um, but I imagine also being part of a number of different organizations that it might be challenging to agree, right?
So what are like some of the biggest challenges- ... in a giving circle? You can't assume just 'cause you're a bunch of Black women or Asian women or whatever- Oh, no ... that you're going to agree on
Chanda Smith Baker: what we need. That's true. You should assume that there will be no agreement. There is
Hali Lee: no agreement.
Miquel McMoore: Take your money.
Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. No. Well, you should assume that the conversation will lead us to where we need to go, and that, um, to me, Miguel, the fact that, that it's rooted in disagreement is actually the opposite of how most things work. Most people don't have... They don't feel invited to disagree, even if they feel differently about what's being said, and that is big fail.
Yeah. So this is an invitation to come and like, let's work it out, and tell me what you value, and tell me what... I'm gonna tell you what I think about it. I'm gonna tell you where I think we should give. And we learn from each other, and we make decisions together. But it's not rooted in agreement. It's actually rooted in your opinion, and your point of view is welcomed at this table, which is not the norm, unfortunately.
Hali Lee: The norm is comfort. The norm is, what can we do to make everyone feel comfortable? And that doesn't work. So there have been some very spicy disagreements in my giving circle. No one has literally thrown kimchi, but it has come close.
Chanda Smith Baker: People quit?
Hali Lee: People quit. We had to, we had to... We lost one member over affirmative action, actually.
Um, I can tell that story another time 'cause I think we're gonna run- Yeah ... out of time. But we have a voting process, and we invite everyone who donates even a dollar to vote on the finalist ballot. And we f- we have a democratic process, which means that a lot of times I don't get my way. But I also know if I don't get my way, I can also make another branch t- by myself to this organization that I love and no one else saw the beauty of.
You know, you have power outside of the circle to just act as an individual. So there's different ways that we can kind of- Yeah. We can talk more about it. Yeah. Oh, there's a hand there.
Jennifer: Okay. Final question here, and then Chanda's gonna wrap, and I'm gonna give us some logistics
Carla Manzoni: Hello. Thank you for everything.
My name is Carla Manzoni. I've learned so much, and I'm curious to know what quest- what, um, what lessons can we, uh, learn from asking for other things? Like, people are so eager to donate time, to donate other types of gifts, and sometimes that is much more, a lot more money than actually giving the money that, that they could give.
So yeah, what are the lessons that we could learn, uh, from other type of giving that's not money?
Hali Lee: Yeah, I mean, a lot of giving circles do all the things. You know, we typ- often ca- talk about five Ts; time, talent, treasure, testimony, and ties. Of course, there are 100 Ts. Um, my favorite is ties. You know, like, at this point, I know a lot of people. So who can I introduce... Who can Beau introduce me to in this town?
Who can I introduce Beau to in New York City or New Mexico, where I spend a lot of time? That's one of my favorites. Um, and it's... You're right, like, that can lead to a lot more money down the road too, those connections. But let's not be afraid of money also because the projects that we're talking about and funding, we also fund individuals, artists, activists, um, they need money too.
So I never not wanna talk about money in these conversations because, um, our nonprofits and artists
Chanda Smith Baker: Uh, yeah, I think, Holly, too, in your book, you talk about beyond the transaction, and I think that's what you're talking about, is a little bit, is beyond the transaction, which I think is getting to know people and what they value.
And I think the more you know, the more you will find the possibilities in what they can contribute. Because even with a donor, you come in, you're like, "Let me s- I need to get money from this donor," and so you're seeing a transaction. Um, and there's an opportunity to have a longer relationship and perhaps more things that, that are given in, in layered ways.
Okay, one more question, Mary, 'cause I saw your question come-
Hali Lee: Relationships are infrastructure.
Chanda Smith Baker: Relationships are infrastructure. Yeah. That is the best line. That...
Hali Lee: It's true.
Chanda Smith Baker: That's the name of this podcast, by the way. I'll say it. I'm saying it to myself in the podcast. All right.
Mary: I, I think it may be to- bringing us to that point, I was going to ask what happens now?
Will the foundation help us with creating these giving circles? Okay, and you mentioned, somebody mentioned data over here. Will we be given more information? I'd like to know. I'm more of an action person.
Chanda Smith Baker: Well, let's get to it, Mary. Yay. Let's move to action. We love an action person. Yay,
Mary: Mary. A perfect segue.
Chanda Smith Baker: It is a perfect segue. Before I completely segue, can we, um, thank our guests?
Yes. Thank you, Chanda. Thank you. Thank you, Holly.
Hali Lee: Let's keep it going.
Chanda Smith Baker: Let's keep it going. Let's keep it moving. And I'm so pleased to have books for all of you, um, here in the room. So next steps. Um, is that mic off? Uh-huh. Okay. Um, so you see up here the Power of Possible. That is, um, actually the name of the giving circle that we're calling it.
We have a new campaign that's coming out. This is really an invitation for you, your friends, and folks in community that have an interest in joining us to join us, and specifically join me on this, this journey. So you will hear about next steps. Um, if you are interested, I think there's gonna be something for you to scan.
I imagine people wanna know, "If I were to join, what would be the annual contribution?" The annual contribution is $1,200, $100 a month.
Hali Lee: But you can give more.
Chanda Smith Baker: You can give more, and frankly, you could give less. Give less. Because this is an invitation for you to be part of us, and I think those that have an ability to give more, give more, and someone that can't, but you wanna be in, we want you in.
This is an invitation to support me, um, support the learning of the foundation, um, and, um, to be part of a brain trust, frankly, in thinking about where we can make impact. Um, the thinking that you have in the room will no doubt inform the thinking that we have in the bigger rooms and where we're making decisions, um, in the foundation.
So that is, in fact, the invitation. Um, I appreciate each of you actually joining us tonight, accepting the initial invitation with not a lot of detail. Um, Jen and Aria are the power behind it. If I tell you how I'm envisioning it at this point, we would have, uh, touch points throughout the year where it's not just about where we're giving, but it's about the conversations that have come up, special invitations with guest speakers.
Um, it might be you had a garden party every year. It might be, um, something that we do with art because I- you have to have fun- Yes ... as part of it or we won't stay together, and we have to have space to get to know each other. It is not gonna be every meeting an agenda with a decision at the end because some of the agenda is building the relationship because relationship is-
Hali Lee: Infrastructure
Chanda Smith Baker: is infrastructure.