[00:00:00] Chanda Smith Baker: Hello Community. You are listening to conversations with Chanda where leadership gets real and personal. This is where we cut through the noise to confront the issue shaping our world and our community from power and justice to the heart of community change, hosted by me, Chanda Smith Baker, President and CEO of the St. Paul and Minnesota Foundation. Steve Simon, thank you so much for being on Conversations with Chanda. It is an absolute pleasure to be in this conversation with you. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. For sure. So when we plan this, I knew that there was going to be potentially a government shutdown, and now we're sitting right in the middle of it.
[00:00:40] Chanda Smith Baker: And so it would be impossible for me not to sort of start there because it's such an unsettling moment. Um, for me, for, for this country. And I'm just gonna go out big and just say, can we just talk about where, how did we arrive at this place?
[00:00:57] Steve Simon: I mean, look, I think a shutdown, whether it's at the state level or the federal level, is just a failure.
[00:01:02] Steve Simon: That's what it is. It's a failure of some kind. The question is, okay, whose fault and who's to blame? And a lot of people have theories on that, but if you can't. Get the government going, some, something went wrong, right? And I think this is a generations long dispute. It's between political parties, it's between political actors, people who want resources, people who want respect.
[00:01:24] Steve Simon: There's a lot of things that go into it. Here we are as we speak, we're on day one of this shutdown, and what tends to get lost is real people. Are in the mix here. Mm-hmm. I mentioned to you before we started here that I work with someone whose brother is an air traffic controller. Now, that's an important job.
[00:01:39] Steve Simon: We all agree we don't want planes falling out of the sky and we can't. Bring air traffic to a close. So the way it works for him under federal law is he must work. He's just not getting paid. So I get that, but that's the kind of hardship we're seeing. And then there are others who are furloughed without pay.
[00:01:57] Steve Simon: That's also a hardship of a, of a different kind, right? Mm-hmm. And things grind to a halt, and you only have essential services. So the bottom line with me is it's just a failure. When that happens, it's not a victory. It's not something to cheer. It's just a failure When you get to the point where you can't do the basics like fund the government, so it speaks to some deeper issues for sure.
[00:02:18] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah, and you know, those deeper issues are eroding public trust. And so one of the most democratic things I believe you can do is vote. Yeah, and we know that there have been communities that have been disenfranchised, um, that haven't participated. There are people that are just sort of throwing their hands up because they don't believe that they can make a difference.
[00:02:40] Chanda Smith Baker: And so what is the impact? Can you even articulate what the impact of this type of moment is on folks believing? That voting matters.
[00:02:50] Steve Simon: I absolutely can. You know, I go all over the state. I'm very proud of that. Took me about five minutes into this job to figure out. The worst thing anyone could do in my job is to sit behind a desk in St.
[00:03:00] Steve Simon: Paul all day. We've got a big state, we've got 87 counties, 5.7 million people. So I travel around a lot around Minnesota and there are a lot of people, there are a lot of reasons people don't vote. And we could talk about that a lot. Mm-hmm. But one particular reason we're all familiar with is the person who says it just doesn't matter.
[00:03:17] Steve Simon: Not mathematically that it doesn't matter. They get that. Yeah. One more vote is one more vote. But people who say, look, no matter what I do or who I vote for, I'm not gonna get the outcomes. I'm not gonna get the results. Nothing's gonna change. It's gonna be the same old, stable old. We're gonna be stuck in a rut like always.
[00:03:33] Steve Simon: And when you have something like a shutdown, this just strengthens. That feeling. The person who says, why should I vote? Mm-hmm. You know, look, we're just gonna get stuck again. I get that. If you wanna hear my response to that. Uh, the person who says that, what I tell people who feel that way. And by the way, they're not necessarily wrong to feel that way.
[00:03:52] Steve Simon: I think every one of us has felt that way, even for a second, even if it's just a fleeting thing, we felt that way. But what I always say to that person is, no matter what the headlines say, no matter what you're feeling, it's okay to feel that. Just don't give into it. You can feel it and overcome it and vote.
[00:04:09] Steve Simon: Why? Because the way I look at it is voting is in your self-interest. It's not an act of charity. It's not a nice thing to do. It's not like a blood drive where it's like, oh, please do this thing that's gonna help someone else. No, this helps you because people in communities that vote tend to get more attention, and if you tend to get more attention, it means you tend to get more of the stuff you want.
[00:04:34] Steve Simon: Not always I'd be a fool to say, all you gotta do is vote and your biggest wishes will come true. Of course not. No, that's not you. But look, if you vote, you're gonna get attention. And if you get attention, you're in a better position. To get some of the stuff you want. So that's what I say, don't lose hope.
[00:04:51] Steve Simon: Don't lose faith. It's easy to, I get it, but that's what we're up against.
[00:04:57] Chanda Smith Baker: Former representative Ruth Richardson was on the podcast, and in that podcast she said that if didn't vote was on the ballot, it would win every time. And so we all are leaning into this moment with feelings. We either love it and it's going in the right direction, or we hate it and we think democracy is broken, like there's extremes that we are navigating in.
[00:05:20] Chanda Smith Baker: But I was really struck by this idea that there's so many opinions and people leaning in and certainly feeling on the ground, right? The outcomes of decision making in their daily lives. But yet, and still, if, if didn't vote was on the ballot, it would win every time. How do we reconcile that? Because you are simply saying that no matter how you feel, it's in your best interest.
[00:05:46] Chanda Smith Baker: Right. And not voting is still a position. Yeah. And so how, how should we think about that and what actions do you think we can think about taking?
[00:05:57] Steve Simon: So I saw. Some words on a t-shirt a few years ago that spoke to me and the words on the T-shirt said, failure to vote is not an act of rebellion. It's an act of surrender.
[00:06:11] Steve Simon: I kind of like that frame, which is, look, you may think you're striking a blow for some, cause you may think you're sending a message, but really you're kind of giving up and when you don't vote, or if a particular community. Doesn't vote. You're sort of giving someone an excuse to ignore you, and that's the worst thing.
[00:06:32] Steve Simon: No one should be ignored, and everyone in power should have to pay attention to the people they represent, whether they agree with 'em or don't like them, or don't live around them or don't. And so don't give anyone an excuse to ignore you. That's what I say. Don't give up. It's okay to feel the feelings.
[00:06:49] Steve Simon: It's okay to be frustrated or angry or whatever. But don't let them convince you to give up your right to vote. A hard fought right after all, let's face it. Mm-hmm. But don't do that. Don't do that. Don't give up. Don't surrender. You're not, the only message you're sending is now it's okay to ignore me.
[00:07:08] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. I also, I had this moment where I sit at all these really interesting tables, right. I'm on the Joyce Foundation Board where that board is. High level, very connected to what is happening politically, right, the way that they understand political decision making, the nuances of policy, the implications, the history is more sophisticated than most of us that are moving around the neighborhood.
[00:07:39] Chanda Smith Baker: And for someone who has not been participating. How would you have them think about what is happening in our democracy? 'cause I think it's one thing to think about voting. Yeah. I think it's something else for them to reconcile the conversations, what they're hearing on television, what they're not hearing about them.
[00:08:00] Chanda Smith Baker: Right. The, the omission of full groups of people. How, how should they be thinking about. Democracy.
[00:08:08] Steve Simon: So I think you're totally right to imply, as I say, that voting is just one piece here. Voting is one piece of democracy, but democracy is about much more than just that. It's about everything from free speech it to economic rights.
[00:08:26] Steve Simon: To how our economy works and functions and treats people. All of that is also democracy. So it's so easy to think about democracy. The shorthand is just that one act of voting, which only comes around every so often, once a year, once every couple years, whatever. But that's not it alone. It's all this other stuff too.
[00:08:45] Steve Simon: It's participating in your community in other ways. Well before or after, there's an election where you cast a ballot. Mm-hmm. So I want people to get into the habit of thinking of democracy much broader than just a ballot box or a vote. It's about the nonprofit community. It's about the for-profit community.
[00:09:04] Steve Simon: It's about being involved in your neighborhood. It's about sending an email or writing a letter, or making a phone call on behalf of a certain cause. All of that, under that big umbrella is democracy, not just voting, although voting's certainly important. That's how we gotta think about it. And remember, the people in office, they're not the boss.
[00:09:24] Steve Simon: Mm-hmm. The people are the boss. Okay. That's the way our system is supposed to work. I know it doesn't always feel that way, but elected officials answer to the public, not the other way around. And we gotta keep getting that in our head.
[00:09:38] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. Agreed. So I, I love that you sort of expanded what democracy is at sort of the healthiest place.
[00:09:48] Chanda Smith Baker: The other thing that I have, um, began to hear more and more often is that it's not just people boiling down to voting, but it's board, it's, it's getting boiled down to political party. Yeah. Right. What are we experiencing now Where political party, the narratives between parties. Are actually helping to define how people see democracy.
[00:10:10] Chanda Smith Baker: And what do you think the role of the electeds are in terms of helping to expand what you just said into a reality on the ground in terms of understanding? Let me take the
[00:10:20] Steve Simon: second part first. Mm-hmm. Because that, what is, what pops into my head first? I think it's the responsibility of people in elected office and the people around them, frankly, not just the elected person, but others around them.
[00:10:32] Steve Simon: To first try to take the temperature down a little bit. Second to just, let's zoom out here. Okay. Political parties are supposed to be a means to an end. They're not the end in and of itself, right. They're a means to an end. People get together who think a certain way, and they say, I am with a a B, C party, or the X, Y, Z party.
[00:10:52] Steve Simon: That's supposed to be the vehicle, the tool to get someplace. It's not the destination itself. Mm-hmm. And I think too often we get caught off. And too many political actors get caught up in that. That's the end itself. That's the victory. That's where you spike the football is when the party does well.
[00:11:12] Steve Simon: Republican, democrat, green, libertarian, whatever it is, rather than, Hey, what are the outcomes we're looking for here? The people we serve, the things we want done. Yeah, parties are important. You bet they are. That's how we organize and that's how we, of course I'm not, I'm not badmouthing parties. I'm part of one, but.
[00:11:29] Steve Simon: It's a tool, it's a vehicle. It's the means to the end. It's not the end in and of itself. So to your listeners out there, the people that they know, look, involvement in a political party is a, a, a really worthy good thing no matter where you stand or where you sit. But it's not the end in itself and there's so many other ways to be plugged into democracy.
[00:11:51] Steve Simon: It's about the cause, it's about the end result. A party can help you get there. But whatever it is. Economic fairness and justice. Civil rights protection, um, an economy that works for everyone. The basics. You know, everyone wants the basics. They want good schools, safe streets, dependable roads, affordable healthcare.
[00:12:14] Steve Simon: These are things that find all of us. People have different opinions, but we gotta get beyond this. The party is the absolute end. It's the means to some other end.
[00:12:23] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. And you know, part of what is happening too is that it's become somewhat like a battlefield in our state, and we have listeners from all over.
[00:12:34] Chanda Smith Baker: Um, but in our state we have certainly seen the evidence, the demonstration of political violence. We have, um, seen the worst of what that looks like. And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on what our political leaders, because it could be very, it feels like they're not just attacking policy decisions, they're attacking people and it feels in some ways, like they're, um, feeding that level of disdain for each other.
[00:13:05] Chanda Smith Baker: And so do you see that becoming different? Can we, can we humanize each other and still be disagreeing politically?
[00:13:16] Steve Simon: Absolutely. We can. And we should. It's the old saying, you can disagree without being disagreeable. I fundamentally believe that. I think the violence we've seen in the last few months here in Minnesota with the murder of Melissa Hortman and Mark Hortman, the attack on Senator Hoffman and the Hoffman family, and then even the Annunciations shooting.
[00:13:35] Steve Simon: In Minneapolis, in the Twin Cities, um, which seems to be at least related to some sort of political agenda, has us all thinking, how do we get here? How can we go back? How can we sort of, um, connect with one another? And really that connecting is so important. It's so easy on social media when you're anonymous and you've got an anonymous handle, you can say anything you want about another person and no one's gonna trace it to you.
[00:14:05] Steve Simon: So easy to be cruel and mean and nasty. I think it's all about human connections, right? It's okay to be friends with someone who voted for someone different than you. Or who thinks about the world a little bit different from you to humanize it, you could be against their idea. You can say that idea is terrible without saying the person is terrible.
[00:14:28] Steve Simon: Mm-hmm. And that's the key thing we gotta get back to, I think.
[00:14:31] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. Agreed. So you just mentioned that you're part of a party, and my question here is both listening to that statement and with you saying that you've traveled across. The state. Yeah. Which means you are interacting regularly with people that may not hold the value or the priorities that you hold.
[00:14:52] Chanda Smith Baker: Um, as part of the party that you represent. What have you done? How do you lead across differences? Like what, what can you teach us about that? I
[00:15:03] Steve Simon: think basic empathy and assuming best intentions is a really healthy way to lead life. Mm, reduces your blood pressure. It also makes you more receptive to new ideas.
[00:15:16] Steve Simon: You're right to say I meet with a lot of people who I suspect I don't ask 'em or whatever, but you know, we all have a certain radar for these things. Uh, there are some people no doubt, that I meet with regularly as I travel across the state, who frankly may not have voted for me or maybe never would. On the issue that we're meeting about, we find common cause we find common ground.
[00:15:39] Steve Simon: And I like to sort of start with assuming best intentions. Okay, this person sees the world different than me. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but let's say they do. Uh, I'm gonna assume that they're honest and thoughtful and patriotic and mean well, right? Unless and until they tell me otherwise, I'm gonna assume that.
[00:15:59] Steve Simon: So that's what I do. Uh, that's the way I like to lead my life. I'm imperfect like everyone else, but I'd like to start there. Okay. This person sees things differently. Um, and I think that has been a successful thing for our office. Look, we rely on a lot of partners take voter outreach, for example. We rely on people who are trusted voices in their community.
[00:16:23] Steve Simon: We have a small voter outreach team. We can't be everywhere. We got 5.7 million people. We have to rely on partners, whether it's nonprofits, you know, foundations, uh, uh, for-profit, uh, you know, other community organizations. They're the trusted voices in their community. Is it possible that they might not agree with me personally on everything, or I agree with them, yes, but they are trusted voices.
[00:16:48] Steve Simon: So when we're trying to get out information about voting, like, where's my polling place? Or am I eligible to vote? Or can I vote from home? Or what are the rules here or there? Yeah, all of that political stuff goes out the window. We're looking for trusted voices in a community, period, and if they're a trusted voice, we wanna work with them about getting out just strictly nonpartisan, factual information about elections so that Minnesotans can vote.
[00:17:12] Steve Simon: So the work itself in our case lends itself to the approach of, Hey, if they're a trusted voice, let's just assume the best intentions and let's work together on what we agree on.
[00:17:25] Chanda Smith Baker: There will be many, uh, people listening that may fully understand what a Secretary of State does, and then there's others that never even heard of the role.
[00:17:34] Chanda Smith Baker: Of course. Have no idea. Could you just shed a little bit of light on what, what do you do?
[00:17:39] Steve Simon: Sure. I'll tell you what we do. So we've got a lot of duties in our office that are in the state constitution and in state law, but if I had to boil it down, it's three things. Um. The biggest part of our office by headcount is not the one that most people think it is.
[00:17:57] Steve Simon: We have a business services department. What does that mean? Well, when you start a business in Minnesota, and I'd say in any state, pretty much the first thing you're gonna do is not hire someone, is not get an office. It's gonna be, you have to make that thing come alive legally, like as an official thing, so you can get a bank account and do all the other things.
[00:18:17] Steve Simon: And so you file the initial papers to get a business started with our office. Now, there are a lot of other things downstream that you also file with our office, but we're sort of the welcome mat for Minnesota businesses, so that's the biggest part of our office By headcount, we also run a program called the Safe at Home Program.
[00:18:34] Steve Simon: Safe at Home is an address confidentiality program. For victims of domestic violence or stalking or sexual assault, or others who have a fear for their physical safety or their family's physical safety. And it allows people in the program to keep their true home address completely shielded, completely anonymous, completely confidential.
[00:18:57] Steve Simon: And we do things like help 'em get their mail through alternate channels, help them vote in ways that don't disclose where they actually live. So that's lifesaving work. But I'll save the one for last that most people know the duty of ours. That gets the most attention. The most interest, yes. The most scrutiny also is elections.
[00:19:18] Steve Simon: So I, and we oversee the Minnesota election system. Now, here's what we don't do. Mm-hmm. We do not count votes ever. That happens in 3000 places across the state of Minnesota. It's spread out for a reason. We report what they count. But we don't lay a finger on anyone's ballot during election day, but we do a lot of other things.
[00:19:37] Steve Simon: We provide legal analysis and spend a ton of time at the legislature designing and tweaking and perfecting our election system, and we do voter outreach work. Where we urge people in Minnesota to vote. So bottom line there is I like to say that we are in the democracy business, and it is one heck of a time right now in 2025 to be in the democracy business.
[00:19:58] Chanda Smith Baker: We often hear about, um, fair and truthful elections integrity. In the process, there has been a narrative around not trusting that process. Do we have a problem with election fraud in our state? No.
[00:20:14] Steve Simon: Minnesota elections are fundamentally fair, accurate, honest, and secure, period. We know that from the data, from the facts, from the court records.
[00:20:23] Steve Simon: Now is our system perfect? No. Every election cycle there will be some very small number. I mean a microscopically small number of people who do the wrong thing and get in trouble, but overall. Our system is really sound and it's really clean. And that's because we have good laws on the books that put in a lot of protections and filtering and screening before, during, and after our election process.
[00:20:46] Steve Simon: So Minnesotans can know our system is honest, never perfect, but honest and clean and accurate and fair.
[00:20:52] Chanda Smith Baker: Mm-hmm. And we have, um, elections coming up, um, soon here and we are in a climate that is fraught with a lot of things. We have heard a lot about safety, safety of election workers, safety of polling places.
[00:21:11] Chanda Smith Baker: As we move into this season, who do you work with to ensure that polling places are safe and those that are working in them and voting there, um, are protected?
[00:21:22] Steve Simon: It's a huge priority. You look at the headlines and you can't not think, Hey, if someone is really. A politically motivated violent actor, could they come at a polling place?
[00:21:33] Steve Simon: Mm-hmm. And while there's no guarantee of anything in life, we have really good laws and rules in Minnesota that really reduce, drastically reduce the likelihood of that happening. Lemme give you an example for your listeners. We've got really strict laws about who can be in a polling place to begin with.
[00:21:53] Steve Simon: It's either gotta be a voter. An election worker, someone who naturally works in that building, a church, a school, whatever. And even with the one exception to that, which is the political parties can send one person. Mm-hmm. Not a. Giant group of 20, just one in writing. They've gotta be designated. And even there, there are rules in in law about what they can do.
[00:22:14] Steve Simon: They can't speak to a voter. They can't come within six feet of a voter. So who do we work with to make sure those laws on paper actually work in reality? We work with cities and townships and counties and statewide law enforcement, and we have a group in our office that works with all those levels of government on physical security, everything from who's there, the design of the polling place, eyes and ears on the ground.
[00:22:36] Steve Simon: And our folks make house calls. Last year, they literally traveled to all 87 counties, not zooms literal visits to all 87 counties to work this out. We have great federal partners as well, the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension in Minnesota. Now, there's no guarantee of anything, right? But we've got the folks on the ground and we've got the good laws that make it far, far less likely, very remote.
[00:22:59] Steve Simon: And we have not had problems in Minnesota with violence or even threats of violence. You never know though. You're only as good as your weakest link, and so we make that a priority.
[00:23:08] Chanda Smith Baker: Sure. I'm gonna go back to sort of the three purposes that you laid out more broadly to, uh, the one in the middle, number two.
[00:23:15] Steve Simon: Yeah.
[00:23:16] Chanda Smith Baker: Which is around protection of addresses.
[00:23:18] Steve Simon: Yeah.
[00:23:19] Chanda Smith Baker: Do you have a thought about protecting the addresses of our elected officials?
[00:23:23] Steve Simon: Yes. In fact, we have some elected officials who have been and currently are in that Safe and Home program. You know, the sad part is. We spent a lot of time in state government, rightly, I think, focused on the workplace security at the state capitol, security for elected officials and their staff security for other people in state government, and that was the right call.
[00:23:45] Steve Simon: But the horrific violence and murder last June just shows that you can do everything right in the workplace. Mm-hmm. And still not stop political violence because as we know, tragically, this perpetrator went to people's homes. He didn't go and shoot up the Minnesota House of Representatives. He didn't go and attack someone in the state office building.
[00:24:04] Steve Simon: He went to private residences. So that's a whole different frontier. That presents a lot of challenges. So we've had an uptick in interest in this program and in other ways that our office can shield some information of electeds. So, for example, as your listeners might know, people who file for office, whether they win or don't, they file with our office with the state to file to run for almost any office except for very local ones.
[00:24:30] Steve Simon: And when they do that, they typically put their home address in. 'cause you gotta know, do they live in that area? Well, we made the decision after the violence of last summer to take that stuff down off of our website. Under limited circumstances. It's still available, law enforcement, others, but we didn't want that to just be floating out there.
[00:24:47] Steve Simon: So we took that down. We took other information down on off our website. Um. We're rethinking how, if at all, we ever disclose that stuff in the future. The legislature comes back in February, so we wanna work with them about putting this stuff in law, but between now and then, we're taking no chances. We just took it down.
[00:25:04] Steve Simon: That's it. It's no use having the risk out there.
[00:25:07] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah, for sure. That's an extreme case. And as you were talking, I was thinking about, you know, protestors showing up and that already feels like a violation of of space. You know, how do we reconcile, like, you know, the laws that have to be there for, um, folks that are extreme and dangerous from the right to protest and to bring voice to the issues.
[00:25:32] Chanda Smith Baker: Like, is there, is there a line though? Yeah. Um, you know, if you protest me at work, you can protest me at work. You come to my house, that's a different ball game.
[00:25:40] Steve Simon: I totally agree. You have put your finger right on the, the, the big challenge here is how do we get through a balance of public officials? Look, like I said earlier, they answer to the voters.
[00:25:51] Steve Simon: They answer to the citizen. You know, we don't bow in curtsy like elected officials are kings and queens in this country. They're everyday folks. That's the way we like it. It's the way it should be. And it's not a big ask to say, Hey, I ought to know where they live. I might never go there, but I wanna know that my state senator or my mayor, or my county commissioner or my secretary of state, where they live and, and that's okay.
[00:26:16] Steve Simon: I don't mean any harm. Like I want to know that they're not a robot, they're a real person who goes grocery shopping and, and does the daily life things. On the other hand, given this climate of violence. Um, does everyone need to know where everyone lives? Are we making them more of a target? I think maybe the line to draw that I think people in Minnesota are getting towards is, okay, this information is somewhat available.
[00:26:41] Steve Simon: It doesn't have to be on a website, but if you look for it, you can find it. But then we provide some security, whether that's cameras or depending on the office, some private security or law enforcement or someone. Maybe that's the balance we seek. Boy, I wish I had the ultimate perfect answer, but that's the balance here.
[00:27:00] Steve Simon: We want our public officials to be not just figures in hiding. We don't know who they are, where they live. Mm-hmm. But we don't wanna mark them for potential violence. Yeah.
[00:27:12] Chanda Smith Baker: Um, one of the last presentations I had the opportunity to be in was following the pandemic, uh, with you where I was listening to how quickly you had to evolve the way that we voted during the pandemic.
[00:27:24] Chanda Smith Baker: 'cause we couldn't gather, we couldn't go to polling places. Um, it leads me to my question around, um, technology advancements, technical advancements, and election like. Where, where do you see the future of this going? Are we still gonna be, you know, filling in the dots and putting it in the, in the counter Or like, where, where do you think it is heading and what might we need to understand about that?
[00:27:46] Chanda Smith Baker: So,
[00:27:47] Steve Simon: not to hijack your question, but one way that that question sometimes comes at me mm-hmm. Is someone will say, Hey, will we ever be able to just vote online?
[00:27:55] Chanda Smith Baker: Yep.
[00:27:56] Steve Simon: Right, like I know we can vote from home. We can order the paper ballot to come to us at home. Mm-hmm. And shameless plug, heren votes.gov is our website.
[00:28:04] Steve Simon: So anyone who's got an election coming up this year or next year, if you wanna vote from your kitchen table or couch, you can have that come to you. You don't have to go to a polling place if you don't want to, but I get the question about online voting and what I would say is. In theory, that's great and I would support it.
[00:28:20] Steve Simon: The problem right now is it's just not secure. Mm-hmm. Right? Someone intercepting it, hacking it, somehow compromising it, right? All the smart people in the tech world say We're not there yet, but look, who knows, in five years or 10 years, maybe we will look back and say, oh, remember those quaint days when we were all worried about that, but now we've got the fix.
[00:28:42] Steve Simon: So theoretically. Imagine what that could do. If there's some, I don't know, who knows? Is it a retina scan or a fingerprint or something? So we know it's the real person. Um, I'm encouraged that maybe someday we'll get there. We're not there yet. I wouldn't support it literally today in 2025 for security reasons.
[00:28:59] Steve Simon: I don't know what's coming down the pike in 10 years.
[00:29:01] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah, but you all aren't in the office load onto the fax machine and saying it's gotta be pen and paper. Like there's actually a reason why we're doing that, which is to protect the vote. Exactly right. It's all
[00:29:11] Steve Simon: about security right now and integrity, but who knows?
[00:29:15] Steve Simon: I mean, the beauty of technology is. It opens up new worlds new doors, and maybe the day will come sooner than we think when we can do that.
[00:29:24] Chanda Smith Baker: Mm-hmm. So were you like a little policy wonk child walking around in school with a tie on, talking about, okay. How did you arrive? No,
[00:29:35] Steve Simon: I loved my baseball card collection and all that little kid stuff too.
[00:29:40] Steve Simon: But I will tell you, when I was a kid, one thing that was a game changer for me, so when I was growing up, my parents had two written news sources, okay? Mm-hmm. I'm dating myself here. This is pre-internet, and uh, two, they had the Minneapolis Star Tribune newspaper. Paper copy just lying around and Time Magazine, the weekly news magazine.
[00:30:01] Steve Simon: And they were just lying around and my parents never said to me, Hey, you know, read your Star Tribune and eat your vegetables and this is good for you, whatever. But it's lying there when I go to get my bowl of cereal in the morning on my way to school. So I'm glancing over at it and I'm seeing a headline on a storm or a war, or a sports score or whatever it is.
[00:30:19] Steve Simon: Just what's going on in the world. And I, it did make me curious, even in elementary school, okay, these are the things that are going on. As I got into sort of middle school, high school, I started to think, okay, these are the headlines that tell me what happened yesterday or last week, but what do I want the headline to be tomorrow or next week?
[00:30:39] Steve Simon: What do I want it to be? And then that led for me anyway, there's no right true, correct path, but for me that led to, okay, well. Part of that is people who get elected to office can have an outcome, a, a, an influence on on those outcomes. And that led me to an interest in politics and campaigns and public policy and all the rest.
[00:31:01] Steve Simon: So that's how it worked for me. So no, I was a regular kid interested in the regular things, except that my parents just having that laying around, they never pushed it sort of to me. I got interested in headlines and just. What I want the headline to be.
[00:31:17] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. What's resonating is sort of the connection to what and how you shape the future.
[00:31:24] Chanda Smith Baker: And there has to just be a, a fundamental belief that you can make a difference on behalf of other people. Has, that's just always been in you and you just believe that to be true? Yes. Like do you think that you have maximized, are you maximizing your potential of difference making? I don't think anyone
[00:31:43] Steve Simon: has.
[00:31:44] Steve Simon: I don't believe in ceilings like that. I don't think you or I or anyone has maximized their potential. It's almost limitless, depending on what you wanna do with it. But I think we all have agency, we all have a voice, and when we work across different lines. We can maximize that together. I mean, one plus one can equal more than two in some ways, right?
[00:32:05] Steve Simon: You get two people together, or five people together, or 10 people together for a good cause, and you can do more, much more than the 10 of you individually could. So I absolutely believe that. I've always believed that, and you can make those new headlines if you. Get enough like-minded people together and you're working together as a team, you can do great things.
[00:32:24] Chanda Smith Baker: Yeah. So let's, let's talk a little bit about that because we're sitting in what has to be one of the most complex times. I, I don't even know how to compare it because every year it sort of one ups itself, right? And so you had COVID, which is super complicated, and then we had the uprising. We've had so many things.
[00:32:42] Chanda Smith Baker: Um, but within that, obviously you're holding on to a future. That is different than the present moment and understanding of historical context and how things move. And in a, in a moment, this is sort of a long-winded question, but in a moment where complexity just keeps complexing itself, um, how do you hold onto hope?
[00:33:04] Chanda Smith Baker: Right? Like what, 'cause you, you see it from a deeper lens than what I would see it. And certainly some folks listening have that perspective as well, where it may not always feel like we're moving in the right direction. But what, what hope might you, what are you holding on to?
[00:33:23] Steve Simon: You mentioned COVID. Mm-hmm.
[00:33:25] Steve Simon: And that to me is a good life lesson, the way I try to think about things. Maybe I fail sometimes, but I try hard, which is, those things are stress tests. Mm-hmm. Something like COVID or the uprising we had in 2020. Those are stress tests. And if you can, if you can pass that test. Those bad things that happen, those unforeseen things that happen, totally unpredictable.
[00:33:49] Steve Simon: I mean, here we are in early 2020 and all of a sudden, a once in a century pandemic with, you know, washes over us. Where did that come from? Right? But if you can get through and pass those stress tests, it makes you even stronger going forward. So the hardships, the bad times, the unexpected things, the tensions, the setbacks.
[00:34:11] Steve Simon: If you can overcome those and even survive, I'm not saying even thrive, if you can just survive and get through it, that makes you stronger. Mm-hmm. And more ready for the next one that might come. And even if it doesn't come, there's strength, there's confidence that comes from having endured and just gotten through these stress tests.
[00:34:31] Steve Simon: And so that's how I like to look at it rather than. Looking at it as a setback, and there were of course setbacks. I'm not naive. All of us felt setbacks, whether it was our kids in school or our pocketbooks or just health itself, maybe losing a loved one to COVID. If you endure and survive that, it puts you in a better position in the future.
[00:34:55] Steve Simon: Now you're really strong. Now you're really experienced, and you can bring all that, including the toil and the pain and the loss. You can bring that to the next endeavor, the next adventure, the next project, the next challenge. So you, you internalize that and you learn from that. You got through a bad thing.
[00:35:14] Steve Simon: You got through a tough thing. And now you're stronger and better and smarter for it. That's the way to look at those challenges, I think.
[00:35:20] Chanda Smith Baker: I love it. Okay, last question, which is, it would be hard for me in my new role, um, to not ask a question around philanthropy and what you think philanthropy's role can be in a moment like this.
[00:35:33] Steve Simon: Huge philanthropy's role is huge. We're at a time for when people are looking for answers. They're looking for, I believe in craving connection, you know, in an era of social media. Where we can all just be keyboard warriors and not have to interact with anyone, any organization that literally brings people together like in a room together and can connect people across lines of difference, that is just golden.
[00:36:01] Steve Simon: So. One of the reasons, um, I'm excited for your new role, if I may say, given your long record of leadership and the many people who admire you, is you're in a position to be as you, I think, have always been a real connector. And man, are those in short supply? Mm-hmm. So there's high demand for people to do what I know you are now doing.
[00:36:26] Steve Simon: And do you mind very quickly, can I ask you a question? Yes, you
[00:36:28] Chanda Smith Baker: can. You start again. So.
[00:36:31] Steve Simon: As you take up this new role, and given all that you've experienced in your past leadership positions, what do you think when it comes to people believing in their own ability, whether it's through voting or other ways to impact things in their community, how do you think either you specifically or philanthropy in general can help?
[00:36:55] Chanda Smith Baker: Well, I think I'll land on both sides of that question if I could. Yeah. One is. You know, I, I think about moments in my life where it's like, I wanted to take a step, but I didn't know if I could. And then someone comes by and sits there and says, that absolutely is a step you need to take. Um, I think part of helping us all move forward is seeing the steps that we all can take, right?
[00:37:22] Chanda Smith Baker: So being able to affirm. See and listen to leaders in community at a time where there's just a lot of noise and not a lot of listening, I think is an essential role that we can play individually and as, uh, an institution, as a philanthropic institution. And I say that because. I've been in so many roles in seats, right?
[00:37:46] Chanda Smith Baker: I've been a nonprofit leader where I've been at the table, and my expertise that was added to that table I knew was essential, and it was wanted. I've also been at the table where someone thinks that nonprofit isn't as business like, or it doesn't have whatever it needs, and so they're, they're telling us in sort of this powered down way that minimizes expertise and perspective.
[00:38:09] Chanda Smith Baker: I think that, you know, if I navigate understanding the value of people in my role and in my individual connections, when people feel valued, they contribute differently. And I think that is the best thing we can do is is, is communicate the value that every single resident of the state has, that we can validate their experience and their perspective.
[00:38:34] Chanda Smith Baker: We can say, yeah, we can't do all of the things. But here's something that we can do together. I think that there's an opportunity to, um, inspire and I love that you brought up convening because I think there are people that will say, you know, well, we got, we can't just talk. Right? But convening isn't just about talking.
[00:38:55] Chanda Smith Baker: It is about listening. It is about building. Social cohesion is about building community. It is about creating space for possibility to emerge. Philanthropy at its best is about investing in the possibility and in the dreams of solutions that impact communities of people that need that solution. And that's what I think we can do.
[00:39:21] Chanda Smith Baker: Amen. Amen. Right on. And good luck.
[00:39:24] Steve Simon: You're, you're extremely well suited for this moment in history, so congratulations.
[00:39:28] Chanda Smith Baker: Thank you so much. Thank you. Anything I didn't ask you you wanna get out?
[00:39:33] Steve Simon: Just that there's always an election around the corner. There's always an election for those in Minnesota who live in places like Minneapolis, St.
[00:39:40] Steve Simon: Paul, Duluth, and other communities. Uh, remember to vote this coming November 4th, and if anyone ever has questions about what the rules are, where to go, procedures, anything. Our website at our office is mn votes.gov. That's mn votes.gov.
[00:39:58] Chanda Smith Baker: I love it. And then of course you surface another question, which is, is there a difference between voting and being an informed voter?
[00:40:06] Steve Simon: Well, I always am. Wanna be careful here.
[00:40:09] Chanda Smith Baker: Okay.
[00:40:09] Steve Simon: There's no requirement in the constitution. It just says you gotta be 18. And a citizen and a resident. They don't say you have to study no anything or study, right? So there's no legal requirement. But yeah, overall, I mean, I think, yeah, get information and ask tough questions.
[00:40:27] Steve Simon: You're the boss. They're working for you or seeking to work for you. So don't be shy about asking them, what are you gonna do? What are you not gonna do? Where do you stand on this? Where do you not? So, you know, find out information about those candidates. It's, you know, there are a lot of resources out there, whether it's the League of Women voters who do forums at all level of government or other groups.
[00:40:48] Steve Simon: Find information about who and what is on your ballot.
[00:40:52] Chanda Smith Baker: Awesome. Thank you.
[00:40:53] Steve Simon: Thank you.
[00:40:55] Chanda Smith Baker: Thank you for listening to Conversations with Chanda, hosted by me, Chanda Smith Baker, president, and CEO of the St. Paul and Minnesota Foundation. To hear more conversations with Changemakers, visit conversationswithchanda.com, conversations with c h a n d a (.com), or find us on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:41:15] Chanda Smith Baker: If you'd like to learn more about the work at the foundation, please visit SPMCF.org.