You're listening to Conversations with Chanda, where leadership gets real and personal. This is where we cut through the noise to confront the issues shaping our world. From power and justice to the Heart of Community Change, hosted by Chanda Smith Baker.
Chanda:All right, Chief Rhondo, welcome to Conversations with Chanda. I have been wanting to have this conversation with you for some time, and now it just feels like very timely because you have a book coming out and I absolutely cannot wait to read it. Congratulations, sir, on that.
Rondo:Miss Chanda, thank you so much. And I'm probably doubly happy to be here with you. I have known you for many years and I just also want to just take a moment to say thank you for continuing to uplift our community and all the spaces that you work in. I've been a big fan of yours for a long time.
Chanda:Thank you so much. So we know each other, but some of the folks listening may not know you when I said Chief Rondo. How do you introduce yourself? Rondo. You're Rondo.
Rondo:I'm Rondo, Rondo, absolutely.
Chanda:Yes. Awesome. And so let's just jump in a little bit on the book. Like, why did you decide to write the book now and what is it that you hope people will walk away from?
Rondo:Yeah, that's a great question. So after the killing of Mr. Floyd back in the summer of twenty twenty, as you can probably imagine, I was focused on really so much trying to get our city and move our community through such a very tenuous time in our city's history, and quite frankly, touched upon our country, our nation's history. And so I wasn't in the right mindset. But I had people that certainly cared about me, that certainly were invested in what occurred from a historical standpoint.
Rondo:And it reached out to me saying, you know, Rondo, I think it'd be really important for you to capture from your lens, all that the city had been going through and the decisions you had to make leading during that time. Quite honestly, it took me a while just because I was not in the right mindset in the first couple of years after that. But it wasn't until about a year and a half ago that actually a relative of mine reached out to me and said that there was a couple of people who he just wanted me to meet. He said, there's no pressure. I know you've been avoiding this for some time.
Rondo:And it was through a casual conversation and then through a series of weekend calls, both the folks live outside of Minnesota. And that's how it developed. It was over a period of about a year and a half of conversations. And that's ultimately when I got to the point where I said, purely from a historical accounting standpoint, I felt it was something that I owed our children, our future generations. And quite honestly, also thought that our elders, it was required of me to make sure that, I spoke up about, the events and how we got through it.
Rondo:I will also say, Miss Chanda, to your listeners too, it's also a part memoir. It's about me, my journey being a product, a child of Minneapolis and how important family has been to me, how important our elders have been to me. And also the relationships that touch upon relationships a great deal throughout the book. So was very, very important to me to put this down on paper.
Chanda:Yeah, you know, I always have a set of questions and then as soon as someone opens up, it opens up like a flood of memories questions. And so the first thing came up for me is that before the murder of George Floyd, there were other officer involved incidents or deaths or murders, depending on how you want to define them. And one of them was Jamar Clark. And I bring that up because there was this encampment outside of the precinct. You were not the police chief at this particular moment, but I remember you in the streets.
Chanda:It felt to me like a very different stance than maybe some of your colleagues in the force. And what felt like, it was the first time that I think I witnessed what I would describe as the tension or the, I don't know, what you held in your body, right? Like I'm from this community and I'm part of this force. And I felt like you walked in both of those at the same time and I could watch the pull, right? You're like, I'm here with you and I have a job.
Chanda:Like what was I observing that in the right way?
Rondo:Miss Chanda, you were absolutely observing that. And it's interesting how certain events have anniversary dates. Jamar Clark was killed back on November fifteenth of twenty fifteen. And I remember that as if it was if it was yesterday. As a result of that, there was and I mentioned this in the book, obviously you talk about it was an eighteen day occupation outside of the Fourth Precinct.
Rondo:To our knowledge that has never happened anywhere else in the country. Community was there for eighteen days, eighteen nights. I was not chief of police at the time. Was a deputy chief. And yes, what you saw in me navigating that space was true.
Rondo:Again, I'm a product of Minneapolis. As a black man growing up in this city, I was schooled on our history. And, that history is so very important to know, just in general about the city of Minneapolis, but certainly I was schooled on the history of, the culture and the place that I worked for thirty two years in Minneapolis Police Department. So and I also knew many of the people community who were out there for those eighteen days and nights and heard them, listened to them, heard their pain and experiences and also having a role as leadership within this organization, this institution. So all of that which you described was true.
Rondo:And if you did not see that and observe that, then I would have felt bad. And probably my dear mother and father would have probably been upset with me because we have to bring our authentic self. It's tough as that is in this day and age, but it is so true. And again, I'm out there with by the way, I had relatives out there. I had my niece showed up one night on Tlymouth Avenue.
Rondo:So I've got family out there as well. And and they know me and you have to be real in those moments. And so all of that, which you're talking about, certainly was what I was experiencing and have experienced throughout different phases throughout my journey within the Minneapolis Police Department.
Chanda:Yeah, if I recall, you came into the force in 1989.
Rondo:Yes.
Chanda:And the way that the public perceived police generally was in a very different climate than what it is today. And it doesn't mean that all of historical things didn't occur, but we weren't all aware of it in the same way that community is now in terms of the challenges in policing. Can you just talk about like your early days? Like what even drew you to this profession to begin with?
Rondo:I grew up nine siblings in South Minneapolis. And for some of you, I'm gonna date myself here, Ms. Chanda, but were at the Airdanders are kind of like the Black Walton's of South Minneapolis. We had a large family. So I'm sure some of your listeners will probably Googling, get on Google.
Chanda:Yeah, Good Night John Boy.
Rondo:Exactly, exactly. But from an early age, my parents instilled this sense of service into all of their children. And that sense of service, whether it was helping our elderly neighbors shovel their sidewalk, helping our siblings, our younger siblings out with their homework, just giving back in some way, shape or form. In Minneapolis, certainly as I was growing up as a child, there weren't that many and there's still in terms of percentage, there still aren't that many African Americans who serve on the Minneapolis Police Department. But there were a few who stood out that we knew from our community and our experience growing up that we recognize and we look to.
Rondo:They were our heroes in the community. Whether it was the late-
Chanda:Officer Manning.
Rondo:Yes, the late great officer Manning, Korean War vet, just wonderful person. The late officer Riley Gilchrist. There were so many others that what they did and how they showed up in our community when it wasn't just because a problem arose, but they were there. They were coaching sports teams and all of that. They were at North High School as school resource officers are at Roosevelt High School popping in.
Rondo:So we got to know them on a personal level and that stood out to me. And so that was very important to me. And so that's where I kind of gravitated to, you know, I think that there's a role for me to play in that profession. And I will also say it was conversations with elders and family members, but who also shared with me the history, of the institution I was about to go into. So they didn't dissuade me, but they wanted me to be very grounded in understanding that history and the sacrifices that were made on my behalf so that I could, be engaged and be involved and thrive within that organization.
Chanda:And you came in and I would say it wasn't an easy journey.
Rondo:Oh no, it wasn't an easy journey in the sense, you first, your opening comments, you talked about seeing how I had to navigate that space during those eighteen days and nights up at the Fourth Precinct after Jamar Clark was killed. So that was part of that understanding that it was going to be a tough journey. It was not going to be easy. You know, when I was chief of police, one of the few portraits that I had in my office right behind my desk was a portrait of 16 Minneapolis police officers circa 1898. Back of the portrait, there's eight white officers, Minneapolis police officers standing with their English style bobby hats and their star badges.
Rondo:And then the eight seated in the front, with the exception of the far right corner, the only black person in that photograph, black and white photograph. That person on the far right was Minneapolis Police Officer Henry G. Thompson. And that picture was taken 1898. I kept that portrait in my office throughout my duration as chief.
Rondo:Because at that time when Henry G. Thompson was serving on the Minneapolis Police Department, he was not allowed to arrest white people. He was basically assigned duties in a horse drawn carriage to take usually men who were at the pubs down by the grain mills who after they got a little bit intoxicated to jail. He would not have been really allowed to even enter into City Hall, and certainly probably never walked into the office that I ultimately occupied for five and a half years. He served thirty years within the Minneapolis Police Department.
Rondo:The reason why I kept that portrait was because I believe that with all the challenges with all of the trials and tribulations that he went through, I believe that he dreamed that someday someone who looked like him would be able to occupy a leadership position within that same organization. And it also was just a simple reminder for me that Rondo, no matter how bad of a day you think you're having, look back, look over your shoulder and remember those people like Henry G. Thompson that really fought so hard so that I could be in the position I was. So I knew that full well going into it. Were there some things that, were new for me?
Rondo:Absolutely. But part of when you finally, feel that you've arrived, it's a blessing those challenges that you did, because you go through that, that's growth. And for me, that's always been about growth. And I think I also have an obligation to make sure that I'm doing what I can like Henry G. Thompson did to make it better for the next men and women who are coming on to that same journey as me.
Chanda:Yeah, and one of the things that you did is that you were part of a lawsuit against the department at some point of your career, along with some of your fellow African American officers. Can you share a little bit about that? Because I've actually always been really curious about it because there's many people navigating the isms or issues at work that are trying to figure out how to navigate them. So you both try to hold accountable, this is my accounting, and your willingness was also to stay and help improve. You didn't leave.
Chanda:So can you just say what and how you navigated that?
Rondo:When I came on, we understood that the historical challenges that had occurred and that were occurring within the Minneapolis Police Department. And we were a generation of black officers who truly loved service and felt that we could contribute to a possible solution in the areas of hiring, the areas of training, in the areas of promotion. We felt that the system had been broken for quite some time. The system had historically, and it's not to blame one administration. It was just part of this 160 year old institutions system dating back to Henry G.
Rondo:Thompson's days. There have been incremental progress, but we felt that it was time now that we could come together, identify where these gaps are, where these inefficiencies are, where these barriers quite frankly are. And we did our best to try to have healthy discussions at the time with those administrations. And it got to a point where we were not having success with that. And so we filed litigation against the city.
Rondo:But I will say through all of that, every single one of us, the five who were involved in that, there was never a question about leaving. It was about that we're, on a very valid basis, bringing these concerns and we wanna be a part of the solution. And so that's prompted the lawsuit back in 02/2007.
Chanda:So you now become sort of the dream and aspirations of the officer in the 1800s. You become the first black police chief of the Minneapolis Police Department. What did that mean to you personally?
Rondo:Meant a couple of things to me. One, again, to know and reflect back on the history of our community, the fights and struggles, to know whether it was back from Henry G. Thompson to understanding the role the Minneapolis Police Department has played within our city. To have talked to our elders who, remember the nights that, Plymouth Avenue went up in flames back in the late 1960s. And to know that we got to a point where it felt that we were ready to have me step into that role.
Rondo:So it was a very humbling experience. But I will also say that, the work just began at that point, because there's also with leadership, Mishanda, it's a gift, but there's also a weight to that. And so, but I was I felt absolutely ready and prepared to take on that role. I also knew that the shelf life for a major city chief is three and a half years and that's if everything goes good. So I also came into it knowing that, I'm on some borrowed time here.
Rondo:And so the things that I knew that I needed to help change and transform the culture of that police department, I knew that I just had a finite period of time to try to do that. Yeah.
Chanda:What pressures came with that?
Rondo:Oh, where should I begin?
Chanda:Know, I mean, that's a whole podcast. That's really not a
Rondo:fair question. No, no, no. It's valid question. So one of the things I think for your listeners to understand is that the police departments in general are a paramilitary organization. Everything down from the rank structure very much models the military, sergeants, lieutenants, captains, those types of things.
Rondo:It is a very culture of command and control. And all through my journey within the Minneapolis Police Department, every promotion, my boss was always someone who was of a higher rank within the police department. For the first time when I became chief of police, my boss now is a civilian and he's a politician, he's a mayor. So that in and of itself is very, it's an interesting dynamic. Not all cities have the chief of police reporting to a mayor.
Rondo:A lot of them have city managers and non elected official. But I say that because that was one that was a dynamic that I had not experienced at that time before. It's also when you think about running an organization at that time with about a thousand members. And at that time to Minneapolis, of all the different city departments, I think it's fair to say the police department gets certainly the most attention. And part of that also is because you are going to interact and engage with police in your community more so than you will probably see the mayor on your street or a city council.
Rondo:I mean, that's just been the nature of it. Police are being asked to do a lot far more today than than ever before. And so you've got an organization that is actually touching people's lives every single day, and understanding the impact of that. And, so that's, there's a pressure there to make sure that you get it right. I've often said that, most professions, people will look at your body of work and judge you on that.
Rondo:Pleasing is one of the few professions where you mess up one time, you're going to be judged and really held to that. So so you've got to get it right. Every encounter has to mean something. So so there's those pressures. And by the way, there's also pressures from naturally from within communities going, Rhonda, we finally got you up there.
Rondo:Hey, now we want this, this, Exactly. Fix it all. So
Chanda:and you were working on all these things and then the murder of George Floyd happens. And I've heard you talk about that night, one of the things that were, if I'm taking away like moments of the book, just be like, y'all don't read the But one of the things that I know community had been critical about was the day of his murder. There was sort of a count that came out that wasn't reflective of what actually happened. And from my point of view, I'm sitting here saying, this is real time information. If someone gives you bad information, you give out bad information.
Chanda:And then it feels to me like it was corrected once the story became more evident. But can you talk to me about just the flow of because I think oftentimes we're like, that wasn't right. But I know in leadership, sometimes it's real time and people want information as soon as it happens. So what do we need to understand about either that moment or about how communication flows? Like how quickly was that happening?
Chanda:Can you offer a little bit of context for us?
Rondo:Yeah, that's a great question. So two of the biggest challenges as a leader that you will often experience, and certainly I did, is time and communication. Time in the sense that people on the inside of the organization will say, Mishanda, you are moving way too fast for us. And people on the outside are going, you're at a snail's pace, you're moving way too slow. And time is something that it will feel like it's bringing you flowers, but it's an imposter.
Rondo:You don't have the time, especially in the midst of a crisis that you think you do. And so when the crisis is evolving, and you're getting bits and pieces of information in right away, you're trying to do your best discernment to pick out what's factual and yet people and understandably so, they need an update. They need an update and not just the community, but you can imagine local, national, news media outlets. We got to get our 06:00 folks out there. We got to do an update.
Rondo:And so you're trying to be as transparent as possible. But as you said, you're getting very limited, at sometimes unverifiable information and you're doing your best to sort through that and get that out. And I mentioned this in the book that the initial information we received, which was not correct ultimately, as we came to find out, was that, there was a medical emergency, which prompted, and ultimately caused, his death. That obviously was not the case. And once that information goes out, as you fully understand and your listeners will, you wish you could take it back, but you can't.
Rondo:You can't. And so then you have to own it. Ultimately, as the leader of the organization, I have to own that. And by the way, it hurt many people. In the midst of a crisis, trust is your currency.
Rondo:Nothing else is going to be as valuable as that. And trust me, going through the events of that summer, I can tell you, trust is the ultimate value of currency. And I will also say this to leaders when I speak with folks both in government and private sector, build those relationships and allies in the quiet moments. Do not wait for the crisis. You will not be able to accomplish that in those relationships.
Rondo:So do it now. And so, even after that initial information came out as a medical emergency, believe me, I had to meet folks. I had to call folks and they had to hear it from me. It's not about me delegating now to other folks down the chain, they need to hear it from me. And as a leader, you have to own that.
Rondo:And so that's how that initial information came to be.
Chanda:We talked about the identities that you hold. And so when you find out that it wasn't the medical emergency, like I have never had to do with anything like that, but I've dealt with a lot. There an additional pressure I put on myself, particularly when I'm looking at people I know, or that look like me. And so what was going through your mind when you found that out? Like was it, I don't know how I would have reacted.
Chanda:You all got me out there in front of my people telling them what? Like, I mean, I don't know what I would do, but like, you know what? I don't even know what to ask you, Rhonda, but like, it's sort of like what was going through your mind? Like was it automatically like I gotta get to justice on this? Was that immediate?
Rondo:So a couple of things and it's a great question. And I think you as a leader in your listeners will hopefully understand this here. That 160 year old institution, in many ways, is like a family. When the bad thing happens, and it's exposed to the world, a natural reaction for institutions is to rally, come in, be insular, isolate ourselves. And I knew that history.
Rondo:And so it was a reminder for me during that time as a leader, that Rondo, there are going to be just natural reactions from the culture of this institution that is going to resist. And it's certainly going to resist and you're going to see it more prevalent in moments of crisis. And our conversation today, Miss Chanda, is so relevant as we see other things shaping up around the nation, institutions, leaders having to make some tough calls and decisions. But that was a reminder for me that, Rondo, not only do you have to seek the truth, but you also have to understand that there are going to be those even within your own organization, your institution that are going to resist it. And it may not even be intentional, but it's based on how that system and its history was set up.
Rondo:And so that was one of the things, that came to me. But I also had the history and the relationships to know, they ain't going to take a memo or an email for me trying to explain it. They've got to see my face. They've got to hear me. And it can't happen again.
Rondo:And so, I can't tell you how many conversations and meetings, Mishanda, I had in our churches and parking lots, and literally an activist's backyards on week. I mean, it was you, you have to be out there front and center leadership in general, but certainly during the midst of a crisis. It has to be active engagement, can't be passive. It has to be active engagement. There's seven principles that my leadership, if you want to say style for a better word, or just how I run them.
Rondo:The first is never abandon your values throughout. Never abandon your values. When we were in the midst of that crisis, I would have officers and supervisors, you know, what's the plan? What's the plan? What's the plan?
Rondo:And that's going be also natural reaction. People are going through something that they've never experienced before. And I would say if you don't hear me say anything else, go back to your oath of office. If you stick back to your oath of office, which is our core values, you're going to be alright. So never abandon your values.
Rondo:Second is own what you say, right? We put out that medical release. It was not accurate. That's on me. I got to own that.
Rondo:Don't run away or deflect. I got to own that. The third thing is listen to all voices. I wasn't just me listening to the mayor or city council members or my command staff. I'm meeting with young activists.
Rondo:I'm meeting with small Latino business owners. I'm meeting with faith leaders. You got to listen to all voices. The other thing is you have to act. You have to act quickly, honestly, and decisively.
Rondo:And when I say quickly, you have to. You may make some mistakes, especially in a crisis, but you have to act. Time again, it's a thief. You don't have the time that you may think you do. Stay consistent in your values is key.
Rondo:Constantly scan threats, both external and internal. As I mentioned, and I mentioned it in my book, there were some things that just the system itself was not going to make sure it got to me. And the last of my principles is always lead with hope. And I want you to know, Miss Chanda, for me, hope is not a mood. It's a practice.
Chanda:Every day, it's not passive.
Rondo:It's not passive. It's a practice every single day. You're out there, you're practicing that hope every time during that time when I got in front of a camera, I always remembered our children are watching what I'm saying every word in which I'm saying. And so that's what helped guide me. And again, as I see our country and I see both, whether it's corporate America, our university systems, I mean, again, I get leadership is difficult.
Rondo:It's hard. It's not for the faint of heart. But my number one rule is never abandon your values. Just never abandon your values. The moment you do that, and the moment you compromise your values, whether it's for political or other types of pressure, I've never seen anything good come from that.
Chanda:I remember having a conversation or being in a meeting with you during this period of time. And I think I even said like, your organization is in crisis And you are literally everywhere. You're at the churches, I was in some of those faith conversations, you're meeting with the downtown folks, you're meeting with the folks in the neighborhood. How in the world do you have the capacity to both manage the external challenges that were happening and then meet the demands of everybody wanted your time. Everybody wanted your time.
Chanda:Did you sleep?
Rondo:No, no. I say this, looking back during that time, you can't. Now when I, when Mayor Fry asked me to come on and serve as his chief January twenty eighteen. You know, I accepted that again, the gift and the weight of that role and the responsibility. But my boss was never the mayor.
Rondo:My boss was the 430,000 residents of the city of Minneapolis. And so I had to be there for them. And no, I did not sleep, during that time. And I'm someone who believes, in wellness and self care, but I'm just being honest, that had to be compromised, because not only did I need to get our city through this, but you can imagine the calls that I received from Chiefs of Police all over the country, who were saying, you know, there was no blueprint at all for what we experienced. Unprecedented.
Rondo:It was the most single significant police civilian incident in modern American history. Nothing compares to it. Every 50 states had protests or demonstrations, and over 60 countries had global protests and demos. So there was nothing that we ever experienced. I wish there was a in case of emergency, Rhonda, break glass.
Rondo:I think, okay, there was none of that. And so at the same time, you fall back to your elders, you fall back to those other voices. I mentioned in the book about unconventional allies. The book is going to probably shatter a lot of assumptions that people may have about police, activists, and just specifically for Minneapolis, some of the ordinary people that stepped up and did some extraordinary things to get our city through again. And by the way, I should also mention, I'm sure your listeners knows we were going through a pandemic, which we had not ever experienced in over one hundred years.
Rondo:I don't think people forget that that was also this is before vaccine talks were talking about. This is so we have that going on. By the way, we were also experiencing a significant increase in violent crime. It was during those times. I mean, you probably remember and your listeners do three precious angels of ours under the age of 10 were shot in Minneapolis.
Rondo:I remember at North Memorial praying by the bedside of our young precious angel Trinity. And so all of these things, so you have to be there. There was no time for sleep. And my number one goal became, quite frankly, Mishanda, was no more funerals. Our city was so tense.
Rondo:It was the epicenter of so much angst, frustration, anger, uncertainty, instability. And so, I just had to make sure that we got through and I had to just lead with whatever bit of sinew and breath and oxygen that I could to do my part.
Chanda:Well, I remember, I think this might even went viral or maybe I just saw it, but you got into an exchange with one of our city council members and you were a little testy if I recall. And I remember watching it and I was like, I'm just tired. I'm like, he's always so even, he's always positive. If there's anybody that can take the heat out turning it up is you, I
Rondo:witnessed it over
Chanda:and over again and you turn it up a little bit. Know. And he's tired. Yeah.
Rondo:I know, that my dear mother is watching always. And so I gotta remember to be respectful and be nice. But I'm sure at that moment that probably came out a little bit. And so, yeah.
Chanda:I remember saying, I'm like, oh, my first thought, I didn't even have to listen to
Rondo:the words. I'm like, he's tired. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Chanda:Tired. Rhonda, what did you learn about your leadership in that moment? Like, as you look back, like what did you learn about yourself? Like, was it your ability to withstand those pressures? Was it an ability to, like if your values were ever tested, they were tested during that time.
Rondo:Yeah, so one of the things I learned, and I know you'll probably appreciate this and your listeners, is those small simple things that our parents teach us at a young age. And I mean this like clean your bedroom. Say yes, say thank you. Say smile when you greet people. Try not to take things too personally.
Rondo:Attitude is everything. Those things that seem so small back then. Now that I look at it, it was preparing me and almost miss Chanda, this, my parents were providing this suit of armor to help me for when I might have to face a storm or crisis. And so that was one of the things that I looked back on was how much those conversations and those lessons in life that my parents gave me that I might have even thought, they don't know
Chanda:what they're talking about, what
Rondo:have you, but how much that stayed with me and how much it helped me. The other thing that I learned early on, and I mentioned this in the book, there's a chapter that's entitled When 32 Becomes 36. Building those allies and building those relationships early on. And it's not about there's no community that's monolithic. It's building those allies and those relationships.
Rondo:And even if you disagree, keep an open heart, keep an open ear, because you never know when you're going to need them and ask for help. And so that was very important for me. And also just seeing my own resilience, that just being able to, and my limits as well. That was something that I because there were spaces that I was not the right messenger. And so it's putting aside your ego, being humble and being a humility is so critically important, think in leadership.
Rondo:And so being able to say, you know what, I can't go the next lap. Miss Chanda, I got to give you the baton and take off. And so those were things that I would say. But I will also I'll say this, hope. I can't tell you how there was never a day and as bad as it got during that time, I knew we as a city, we were going to come through this.
Rondo:There was never a doubt in my mind. Even in the darkest moments, I knew we were gonna get through this as a city.
Chanda:You made immediate decision once you found out what occurred to fire the officers and take action. And I imagine that that did not go well for everyone that was in the rank and file. Your book is titled Justice for George Floyd, right?
Rondo:Yes.
Chanda:Securing Justice for the Murder of George Floyd. You acted that way from the beginning. And what that leads me to is questions around accountability. And from your point of view, what like, because you've talked about the history from the 1800s, you've talked about sort of the lack of diversity, the challenges, you sued a department that you ultimately began to lead. And embedded in all of that is the entrenched ways of protecting and all the things that you said.
Chanda:And so we understand that you're coming up against a lot of factors here, but what does accountability and policing look like for you? Because you really demonstrated that, but what does that look like? What can you share with us?
Rondo:I did not have to see, and I mentioned this in the book as well, but when I saw the video, in the early morning hours of May 25, early morning hours actually of May 26, I did not have to see a ton of investigations of, you know, my eyes did not lie to me. And so, when I came into office as chief, one of the first things I did, back in 2017 was I sent out, I called it, the Chief's vision statement for the MPD. It was going to be our new pathway moving forward. Every single employee sworn and civilian received that. The importance of that was two things.
Rondo:One, not every there's no way I was going to get to know every single, employee of the Minneapolis Police Department, but they needed to know what my expectations were for them and what they could expect of me. The first part of that vision statement, I mentioned very explicitly about the sanctity of life. The officers need to go home at the end of the day, but our community does as well. And so that sanctity of life is our bedrock. That's part of the value, the values that I talk about.
Rondo:And so, that was violated. I talk strongly about humanity. And by the way, humanity has to be embedded within our policies as leaders. After George Floyd was killed, one of the things that I did was I changed our 160 year old basically, oath of office. And it was a collaborative process with community NAACP and Minneapolis Urban League.
Rondo:And Mishanda, do you know what the most radical word in our new oath of office was? Love. Love, and a love of service. We talk about the human family in that new oath of office. We talk about officers, if they're witnessing someone's rights being violated, they have a duty to intervene both protests verbally and physically if they have to, even against if it's someone who's wearing the same uniform that they are.
Rondo:It's not about just leading with authority, but leading with humanity. And so when I took that decision to terminate the employment of those four former officers, that was based again on our values. That was based again on what our ethics were. And it was also based on that vision and that sanctity of life. And so yes, there are certainly and there certainly were those who within the organization that did not like that.
Rondo:But as a leader, you fight for truth, even if it means you stand alone. You fight for truth, even if it means you stand alone. And being a leader isn't about holding on to power. It's about holding people. And so that is why I made the decision I did.
Rondo:I stand by that decision. And so, I wanted to make sure that when I left and made the decision to leave, I didn't leave with regret. I left with my integrity. And so I feel strongly about them.
Chanda:How much reform have you seen? Right? Like sometimes it feels like it stands still and you mentioned earlier, one incident is what community sees. You see it, that's changed. It seems to me like obviously even in the counting of the history that you talked about from Henry G.
Chanda:Thompson, There's a lot that has changed from his point to your point. Are there reforms happening that you think are just moving in the right direction that you would want to mention that you think are important levers to additional sort of community policing and the type of experience and relationship that community ought to have with our police departments?
Rondo:Yeah, so a couple of things that I see in terms of transformation, in progress, which I have seen I've I've stepped aside from the profession that are good is I think you are starting to see, you know, when I made the decision to terminate the employment of those four former officers, that was unprecedented. A sitting chief to do that in a criminal murder that just that that did happen before. However, you are starting to see more chiefs of police across this nation and sheriffs who are taking quick, decisive, transparent employment decisions and disciplined decisions right away that you had never seen before. You're also starting to see unions step up and and also realize that, which I've often said, the most important contract that a police officer has isn't with the union. It's the contract and promise they have with the people that are paying their salaries that they've taken an oath to protect and serve.
Rondo:So you're seeing that. We're seeing technology now being utilized in police departments across the country that we had never seen before. We obviously body cameras has been so important. Different types of technology has been great. We're seeing police and chiefs of police and sheriffs using data to tell our community story, which is now starting to really engage in informative trust based dialogue.
Rondo:You know, don't just tell me something. I want to see the data. So we're starting to see that. But I will also say that all of that pales in comparison to police chiefs and sheriffs hiring people with character. None of those other things can replace having people who want to serve their communities and they have character because it's those individuals who will live up to and aspire to make sure that those values are not abandoned and never abandoned.
Rondo:So again, there's progress along. There's a lot of work, more work to do. Sadly, even after Mr. Floyd was killed, we saw the tragedy with Mr. Tyree Nichols in Memphis.
Rondo:I commend Chief Sarah Lynn Davis down there. She took swift action. I mean, we're starting to again, we're starting to see accountability and what that looks like, and not being drawn into this culture silence. And, you know, we're gonna wait to see all of these things play out before we, you know, leaders are stepping up and communities are starting to see that more, but still more work to do.
Chanda:Yeah, you know, I didn't mention, so your father, you have a son.
Rondo:Oh yes, yes, yes.
Chanda:And you have a daughter.
Rondo:Yes.
Chanda:I'm gonna go to the son for a second. What was that like parenting during that period of time? Was he like, I mean, there tension, was there support? Have you had to give the talk? All of the things that come with parenting, how was that navigating that?
Rondo:So he was a young adult during that time, but I actually in my book again, I mentioned about the talk because that is real. I mentioned that as well. But during that specific time, he's trying to as a young adult, he's trying to process all of this as well. And as I talked about, there wasn't a whole lot of sleep. I would check-in with both of them, son and daughter to make sure they're doing okay.
Rondo:As any parent you want to shield your children from, all those things, I received, you could, all those things, but they didn't sign up for that. And so you always are going to be more protective of your children. But they managed it. They are smart individuals and smarter than their dad. But they manage, they process, they also listen to differing voices as well.
Rondo:They also had an advantage because they also, they knew a lot about history through me. And, so but they did well, if anything, I had to tell them, don't worry about me. I'm getting my share of peanut M and M's every day as my daily diet routine while I'm out here working.
Chanda:I saw them at your retirement event. I think one of them spoke, can't remember. And I was just a mess. I needed all kinds of tissue.
Rondo:Well, know you are a very caring and loving mother yourself and yeah, we get very proud of our children. And so, and it is true just as for you. I can only imagine some of the things that you had to miss just because of your role in your space, whether you're flying out of town and you can't be back for this or you're going to miss this special event or holiday or just yeah. And so again, they didn't sign up for it, but they're along the journey with us. And so you it's yeah, we're blessed that at one point in time I tried to just how do you make up for lost time?
Rondo:You can't, but you just try your best and they pretty much said, dad, it's okay, we got you.
Chanda:And they were to us. Made pride and I always have to mention it because oftentimes when we're in these moments and people are leading, it is sometimes invisible that we still are parents, we still have work, we still have accountabilities. And I think it's just important to mention that you were parenting and managing these young adults in the moment. As we get ready to wrap, I wanna ask you, what is giving you hope right now?
Rondo:What's giving me hope right now is I'm seeing leaders step up into their roles and holding on to their values, even at great cost to their titles, to their salaries. They're holding the line when everything else says retreat, they're rising. And that is giving me hope. So that I see that. And that's critically important.
Rondo:The other thing that I see is young people. One of the things that was so very helpful during my time as chief was being able to be in spaces where we have such magnificent, intelligent young voices out there that want to make a better tomorrow. And we have to support them in that. And they're all around us, by the way. And I just give a plug to your son who's doing great things over at V3 Sports.
Rondo:But we have to make sure that we support them. So that gets me whole. But I'll just say lastly, the last chapter of my book, it's a personal letter to Gianna Floyd, Mr. Floyd's daughter. And so, I owe her a brighter future.
Rondo:And I think we all have an obligation, a brighter future, with hope for our children. So I remain hopeful. And again, hope to me, it's not a mood, it's a practice. So I'll continue to practice that.
Chanda:Man, so what you just said, I'm like, I can feel the emotion coming up. The book, Securing Justice for the Murder of George Floyd, it is being released in May.
Rondo:It's in May, May thirteenth. It'll be officially released. You can find it all the traditional large bookstore sites, Beetle and Amazon. The others also are independent bookstores around the country. And again, I want to say it is a story of hope and particularly for people who were in Minneapolis or in the state Of Minnesota.
Rondo:I think there will be some interesting information they had not known before. I think it will give you a view and glimpse of why I made the decisions I made. And it'll also probably again, surprise and shatter some assumptions that people have, but in the end, it is a book of hope. So thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share a conversation with you and your listeners, Ms. Chanda
Chanda:Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for your willingness to put your story and your leadership on paper. I agree with your family member. I'm thankful that they pushed you. I cannot wait to read it.
Chanda:I would encourage everyone to go out and get it because we should be supportive. There are many things that we need to learn from. And in this moment in our history, as challenged as it was, it seems incredibly important for us to really have sort of the look back, a lens of what it meant to lead during that time. And so I just really want to thank you for doing that. And I will be back in touch with you for sure after I read it.
Chanda:So thank you, Rondo, for being on Conversation. Thank
Rondo:Thank you. So can I share one little funny note with your viewers? You know what this is gonna be. So as I'm wrapping up my tenure as chief, I wanted to personally reach out to, leaders in the community who had been so helpful and supportive for me over the years. And so one of them, to your listeners was Ms.
Rondo:Chanda And so I've been trying to get in touch with you. I know you are very busy. And so eventually I was able to get ahold of you because I had a beautiful plaque that I wanted to present you. Well, to your listeners, Miss Chanda happened to be getting her hair did at a salon.
Rondo:At the salon. And I said, well, got something for you. And she says, well, I'm getting my hair. I said, come on outside. So she I don't know what was in your hair, but you came out to the street.
Rondo:I'm giving you this, I'm giving you this sort of proclamation of this award and you're like, you better not have any pictures posted of me with my hair like this here. But,
Chanda:my hair wrapped, all the women from the salon came out, I've got on a cape. I'm sitting on this busy street and you didn't just hand it to me. You had words.
Rondo:Absolutely. So I will remember that as well.
Chanda:So, well, it was a stressful moment. I appreciate you, sir.
Rondo:This has been so wonderful. I can't tell you again, just knowing you over the time and the years that I have, you've been so such a joy and a blessing and we're better. We're better as a city and a community for having than not having you truly.
Chanda:Thank you.
Souphak:If you'd like to explore more content and join our community, find us at conversationswithchanda.com. We have a wonderful collection of episodes featuring notable guests that you can enjoy on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. And I also invite you to follow our journey and add us on Instagram at Conversations with Chanda. Until next time.